How to get started with building an fpga mining device

Aeon

Aeon (AEON) is a private, secure, untraceable currency. You are your bank, you control your funds, and nobody can trace your transfers.
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Monero, the Most Private Cryptocurrency

Monero, the Most Private Cryptocurrency
Written by the CoinEx Institution, this series of jocular and easy to understand articles will show you everything you need to know about major cryptocurrencies, making you fully prepared before jumping into crypto!

https://preview.redd.it/ryvcznqspe451.jpg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5fa91e26288d7b0a624113ed21172cc9fd5624a3
Monero, or XMR for short, is an open-source cryptocurrency that is safe, reliable, private, and untraceable. It can run on Windows, Mac, Linux, and FreeBSD, and is known as one of the most private cryptocurrencies. In 2018, Monero already ranked 10th in terms of trading volume, with its market value beyond 1 billion US dollars, an evidence for its great fame in this field.
By a special method in cryptography, Monero ensures that all transactions remain 100% irrelevant and untraceable. Perhaps after reading this article, you will understand why it is so special and popular in the increasingly transparent and traceable cryptocurrency circle (After all privacy comes first!).
In fact, many large cryptocurrencies in the world are not anonymous. All transactions on Bitcoin and Ethereum are made public and traceable, which means that anyone can eavesdrop on transactions flowing into and out of the wallet. That has given rise to a new type of cryptocurrency called “privacy currency”! These “privacy currencies” hide encrypted transactions by adopting specific types of passwords. One typical example is Monero, one of the largest privacy cryptocurrencies in the world.
Monero was created on April 18, 2014 under the name BitMonero, literally the combination of Bit (Bitcoin) and Monero (the “coin” in Esperanto). In five days, the community decided to change its name to Monero.
Interestingly, Monero’s creators valued personal privacy and tried to behave in a low-key manner with pseudonyms instead of the real names. It is said that the Monero major contributor’s nickname is “thankful for today”, yet this guy has gradually disappeared from public view as Monero developed day by day.
Unlike many cryptocurrencies derived from BTC, Monero is based on the CryptoNote protocol. It is also the first branch based on the Bytecoin of CryptoNote currency. Here is some information about Bytecoin: BCN, for short, is a decentralized cryptocurrency with a high degree of privacy; it has open-source codes that allow everyone to contribute to the development of the Bytecoin network; and the Bytecoin network provides global users with instant private transactions that are not traceable and at no additional cost.
Yet, as a branch of BCN, Monero outshines its parent in reputation by being different in two ways. First, Monero’s target block time was reduced from 120 seconds to 60 seconds; second, the issuance speed was cut by 50% (which reverted to 120-second residence later, with the issuance time maintained and the reward for each new block doubled). By the way, during the fork, the Monero developers also found a lot of low-quality codes and then refactored them. (That is exactly what geeks will do)
Monero’s modular code structure was also highly appreciated by Wladimir J. van der Laan, one of the core maintainers of Bitcoin.
Monero values privacy, decentralization and scalability, and there are significant algorithm differences in blockchain fuzzification, which sets it apart from its peers. How private is it? Here are more details.
1. Safe and reliable
For a decentralized cryptocurrency, decentralization means that its network is operated by users; transactions are confirmed by decentralized consensus and then recorded on the blockchain irrevocably. Monero needs no third party to guarantee the safety of funds;
2. Privacy protection
Monero confuses all transaction sources, amounts, and recipients through ring signatures, ring confidential transactions, and invisible addresses. Apart from all the advantages of a decentralized cryptocurrency, it is by no means inferior in safeguarding privacy;
3. Unable to track
The sender, the receiver and the transaction amount of all Monero transactions must be anonymous by default. The information on the Monero Blockchain cannot be matched with physical individuals or specific users, so there is no trace to track;
4. Scalable
Everyone knows that Bitcoin’sability to process transactions has always been limited by the scalability issue; as we have mentioned before in the introduction of Bitcoin, the block size of 1MB makes things difficult. But Monero’s developers have created a system that allows the network to process more transactions when needed; what’s more, Monero does not have any “pre-set” restrictions on block size.
Of course, this also means that some malicious miners may block the system with large blocks. To prevent this from happening, Monero has worked out countermeasures: the block reward penalty of the system.
On October 18, 2018, Monero’s latest hard fork changed the consensus mechanism algorithm to CrypotoNight V8. In this hard fork, it introduced the BulletProff bulletproof protocol, which can also effectively reduce the transaction fee of miners without disclosing transactions
It is said that Monero will issue about 18.4 million XMR in around 8 years. Moreover, it eclipses its counterparts in distribution — with no pre-mining or pre-sale, all block rewards will be left to miners by means of the POW mechanism.
Here is the reward scheme of Monero in two stages:
  1. Acceleration: mine 18132000 XMR before May 2022;
  2. Deceleration: Deceleration starts right after 18132000 XMR are mined, and there will be a reward of 0.6XMR for each block mined afterwards. In this way, the overall supply will be kept on a small scale and decelerated.
Monero is also excellent in its development concept that is designed to be anti-ASIC from the very beginning. Here is a brief introduction to ASIC (Special Application Integrated Circuit).
Due to the specificity of ASICs, specially designed ASICs can usually have much higher hashrate than general CPUs, GPUs, and even FPGAs — that makes hashrate excessively centralized and makes it vulnerable to the monopoly of single centralized institutions. Yet the cryptonight algorithm used by Monero allows most CPUs and even FPGAs to get involved and get mining rewards, instead of making GPU the only one that can efficiently mine.
In other words, Monero’s core development team will modify the consensus mechanism algorithm and have a hard fork after some time to ensure its strength against ASIC and the monopoly of hashrate.
However, although Monero has been designed against ASICs to avoid centralization, nearly 43% of its hashrate is still owned by 3 mining pools; in addition, it is not a BTC-based currency, making it even harder to introduce some elements. Of course, Monero is not that newbie-friendly, and thus has not been widely accepted.
Yet each cryptocurrency has its own features. As long as Monero keeps improving its privacy, it will definitely attract increasing followers. If you are interested in Monero, welcome to CoinEx for exchange or trade.

About CoinEx

As a global and professional cryptocurrency exchange service provider, CoinEx was founded in December 2017 with Bitmain-led investment and has obtained a legal license in Estonia. It is a subsidiary brand of the ViaBTC Group, which owns the fifth largest BTC mining pool, which is also the largest of BCH mining, in the world.
CoinEx supports perpetual contract, spot, margin trading and other derivatives trading, and its service reaches global users in nearly 100 countries/regions with various languages available, such as Chinese, English, Korean and Russian.
Website: https://www.coinex.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/coinexcom
Telegram: https://t.me/CoinExOfficialENG
Click here to register on CoinEx!
submitted by CoinEx_Institution to Coinex [link] [comments]

ProgPoW resources

Informational

May 2, 2018 EIPs/eip-1057.md at master · ethereum/EIPs · GitHub
May 3, 2018 ProgPOW/README.md at master · ifdefelse/ProgPOW · GitHub
May 3, 2018 EIP-ProgPoW: a Programmatic Proof-of-Work - EIPs - Fellowship of Ethereum Magicians
May 29, 2018 The Problem with Proof of Work - K. L. Minehan - Medium
October 25, 2018 Understanding ProgPoW - IfDefElse - Medium
Nov 17, 2018 progpow-wiki/ProgPoW.md at master · MariusVanDerWijden/progpow-wiki · GitHub
December 10, 2018 ProgPoW - A Programmatic Proof of Work by Kristy-Leigh Minehan (Devcon4) - YouTube
January 10, 2019 ProgPoW FAQ - IfDefElse - Medium
January 14, 2019 What GPU miners may not know about ProgPoW - Andrea Lanfranchi - Medium
January 17, 2019 ProgPoW: Progress Update #1 - IfDefElse - Medium
February 14, 2019 Council of Denver - HackMD
February 17, 2019 The Miners Benchmark ProgPoW - Theodor Ghannam - Medium
February 21, 2019 Ethereum ProgPoW Explained - Crypto Mining Blog
March 18, 2019 13 Questions about Ethereum’s Movement to ProgPow by Jon Stevens - Medium
March 20, 2019 Skeptical about #ProgPoW? I am too! - Bryant Eisenbach - Medium
March 27, 2019 Comprehensive ProgPoW Benchmark by Theodor Ghannam - Medium
March 28, 2019 My stance on Progpow by Martin Holst Swende
March 30, 2019 The Cost of ASIC Design - IfDefElse - Medium
April 12, 2019 Ethereum ProgPoW Update - Crypto Mining Blog
September 23, 2019 In Defense of ProgPow : ethereum
February 4, 2020 Antminer E3 Stops Mining Ethereum Classic, Just Over a Month Remaining for Ethereum - Crypto Mining Blog

Ethereum Magicians

August 2, 2108 Final Request From the GPU Mining Community - EIPs - Fellowship of Ethereum Magicians
August 26, 2018 EIP-1355: Ethash 1a - EIPs - Fellowship of Ethereum Magicians
September 3, 2108 What has to be done to get ProgPoW on Ethereum - EIPs - Fellowship of Ethereum Magicians
January 1, 2019 Guidelines for ProgPow Hardware Developers - Primordial Soup - Fellowship of Ethereum Magicians
February 2, 2019 On the progpow audit - Action Item - Fellowship of Ethereum Magicians
March 3, 2019 My technical take on ProgPow’s weakest link - EIPs - Fellowship of Ethereum Magicians
March 4, 2019 Governance concerns after listening to ~all ProgPow discussions on Core Dev calls - Process Improvement - Fellowship of Ethereum Magicians
March 29, 2019 Motion to NOT include ProgPow without audit - EIPs - Fellowship of Ethereum Magicians
March 30, 2109 ProgPoW - A Compilation of Reference Material - Core EIPs - Fellowship of Ethereum Magicians
May 23, 2019 ProgPoW Audit Delay Issue - EIPs - Fellowship of Ethereum Magicians
July 8, 2019 Ensuring ETH 1.x’s Success Without Disenfranchising The Community - Ethereum 1.x Ring - Fellowship of Ethereum Magicians
August 8, 2019 EIP-centric forking - Process Improvement - Fellowship of Ethereum Magicians

YouTube

October 8, 2018 Cardano Rust Project | Petro Public Sale | ProgPow | WSJ Attacks Shapeshift (October 2nd, 2018) - YouTube
October 23 2018 Ethereum Mining News | FPGA’s Mining | ProgPoW LIKELY | Profitability | Hard Fork Delayed 2019 - YouTube
December 13, 2018 Why ProgPoW is BAD for Ethereum - YouTube
December 19, 2018 Bitcoin Rallies Towards 4k - Why? Ethereum Launches ProgPoW GPU Mining Testnet | New HD Minable Coin - YouTube
January 4, 2019 Ethereum moving to PROGPOW! What’s it mean for Miners? - YouTube
January 4, 2019 Ethereum ProgPoW CONFIRMED! - YouTube
January 5, 2019 Mining on the ProgPoW Gangnam Ethereum Testnet! - YouTube
January 6, 2019 6 x Asus RX 570 4GB ProgPoW Gangnam Ethereum Testnet TEST! - YouTube
January 7, 2019 ProgPOW Explained - A Brave New World for Ethereum Miners? - YouTube
January 20, 2019 CES2019 - North American Bitcoin Conference - GRIN / BEAM - PROGPOW and more! - YouTube
January 23, 2019 Ethereum to ZERO? Eth Chain Split. ProgPow & ETC 51 % Attack. GPU vs ASIC Miners. - YouTube
January 29, 2019 Nick Johnson: Future of the Ethereum Name Service and thoughts on ProgPOW - YouTube
February 19, 2019 Ethereum Hard Fork Soon? ProgPoW Voting? - YouTube
February 20, 2019 ProgPoW Merged Into Parity Ethereum | ETHNews Brief - YouTube
February 25, 2019 How does R7 370, R9 380,380x,390 and more perform on PROGPOW and other Cryptocurrencies in 2019? - YouTube
March 7, 2019 PROGPOW Explained in under 4 min. & why it matters to GPU Miners - YouTube
March 19, 2019 What is BBT doing with PROGPOW, Why all of the testing? - YouTube
March 25, 2019 eVGA RTX 2080Ti FTW3 11GB DDR6 Cryptocurrency Performance Test PROGPOW ETH RVN BEAM GRIN29 GRIN31 - YouTube
March 29, 2019 Ethereum & ProgPoW… What Is Going On? - YouTube
May 2, 2019 Ethereum ProgPow Audit Has Been Funded & Approved - YouTube
July 5, 2019 Mining News! Monero RandomX | Ethereum ProgPoW 2019 Update | Grin Embraces ASIC miners | Zel Zelhash - YouTube
July 24, 2019 Ethereum ProgPoW AUDIT Is Finally Getting Started… - YouTube
September 13, 2019 Ethereum ProgPoW Algorithm Audits Finalized - YouTube
September 24, 2019 An Argument Against ProgPoW a Day - Part 1 - YouTube
October 4, 2019 82 - Defending ProgPoW with Kristy-Leigh Minehan - YouTube
October 10, 2019 #36 - Kristy-Leigh of ProgPow discusses the EIP, Satoshi, Code Contributions, and Crypto Mining 2020 - YouTube
November 24, 2019 Ethereum Classic REJECTS ProgPoW… - YouTube
December 16, 2019 Ethereum ProgPoW Implementation Is STILL Coming Right? - YouTube
December 26, 2019 Panel: Least Authority’s ProgPoW Audit (Devcon5) - YouTube

Podcasts

April 11, 2019 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/blockchannel/id1307284590?i=1000434669782
September 10, 2019 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ethhub-weekly-recap-78-ethboston-compound-drama-eth2/id1443920565?i=1000449269536
September 25, 2019 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ethhub-weekly-recap-80-progpow-discussion-doj-extortion/id1443920565?i=1000451214746
October 4, 2019 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/82-defending-progpow-with-kristy-leigh-minehan/id1436674724?i=1000452312677

Official Updates

May 18, 2019 Dev Call #38 - May 18, 2018
August 24, 2018 Dev Call #45 - August 24, 2018
September 28, 2018 Dev Call #47 - September 28, 2018
January 4, 2019 Dev Call #52 - January 4, 2019
January 18, 2019 Dev Call#53 - January 18, 2019
February 1, 2019 Dev Call #54 - February 1, 2019
February 11, 2019 Ethereum Cat Herders Update#1 : EthereumCatHerders
March 15, 2019 Dev Call #57 - March 15, 2019
May 24, 2019 Dev Call #62 - May 24, 2019
July 18, 2019 Dev Call #65 - July 18, 2019
September 10, 2019 ProgPoW Audits Released - Ethereum Cat Herders - Medium
September 6, 2019 Dev Call #70 - September 6, 2019
November 1, 2019 Dev Call #74 - November 1, 2019
December 13, 2019 Dev Call #77 - December 13, 2019
January 24, 2019 Dev Call #79 - January 24, 2020
February 21, 2020 Dev Call#81 - February 21, 2020

News Articles

January 4, 2019 Ethereum Core Devs to Move Forward With ASIC-Resistant PoW Algorithm
January 5, 2019 Ethereum (ETH) Developers Plan to Implement ASIC-Resistant Proof of Work Mining Algorithm
January 7, 2019 BREAKING: Ethereum Classic (ETC) Hit With 51 Percent Attack A Week Before Ethereum (ETH) Constantinople Hard Fork – Crypto.IQ | Bitcoin and Investment News from Inside Experts You Can Trust
January 8, 2019 ETH Dev Suggests Moving to ‘ASIC-Friendly Algorithm’ After ProgPoW Decision
January 8, 2019 Ethereum Miner Linzhi Calls Out Project Coders for Proposed ASIC Ban - CoinDesk
January 8, 2019 Ethereum (ETH) Core Developers Propose an ASIC Resistant Upgrade - Ethereum World News
January 9, 2019 Ethereum Classic (ETC) 51% attack proof that shitcoins have no hope of succeeding? | CaptainAltcoin
January 9, 2019 What’s ProgPoW? Meet the hot new debate in the Ethereum community | finder.com.au
January 18, 2019 Ethereum Core Devs Constantinople Meeting to Be Held on Jan 18
February 1, 2019 Ethereum Core Dev Call #54: Waiting for ProgPoW - The Block
February 3, 2019 Will Ethereum Adopt ‘ProgPoW,’ the ASIC-Resistant Mining Algorithm? | CryptoSlate
February 4, 2019 Is Ethereum Going to be Adopting ASIC-Resistant ‘ProgPow’ as a Mining Algorithm?
February 15, 2019 Ethereum Core Dev Call #55: ProgPoW audits and Vitalik’s Phase 2 updates - The Block
February 15, 2019 Recompensas por minería en Ethereum llegan a mínimo histórico | CriptoNoticias
February 28, 2019 Coinhive dice adiós a la minería web por caída del mercado | CriptoNoticias
March 6, 2019 Ethereum Core Dev Meeting : ProgPow Implementation Receives More Than 50 Percent Votes from Miners - CryptoNewsZ
March 7, 2019 The ASIC Resistant Mining Campaign from Ethereum Miners Is Just Getting Started
March 12, 2019 Ethereum’s ProgPoW Proposal: An Expensive Game of Whack-a-Mole - CoinDesk
March 12, 2019 Ethereum’s ProgPoW Mining Change to Be Considered for Istanbul Upgrade - CoinDesk
March 14, 2019 As ProgPoW Aimed at Stopping ASIC Mining Gets Supporting Votes, New Conspiracies and Debates Appear
March 15, 2019 Ethereum’s ProgPow Mining Change Approved Again, But Timeline Unclear - CoinDesk
March 17, 2019 Ethereum Devs Once Again Approve ASIC-Resistant Algorithm ProgPoW
March 18, 2019 Ethereum (ETH) to Be ASIC-Resistant, No Date Set However - Cryptovest
March 27, 2019 Aumentan desacuerdos en Ethereum por decisión de avanzar con ProgPoW | CriptoNoticias
March 29, 2019 Bitmain Co-founder, Jihan Wu: ASIC Miners Makes a Blockchain Network More Decentralized - Coindoo
April 8, 2019 A Fight Over Specialized Chips Threatens an Ethereum Split | WIRED
April 26, 2019 Funding Approved for Audit of Ethereum’s ProgPoW Mining Proposal - CoinDesk
April 28, 2019 Ethereum Core Devs: Funding for ProgPoW 3rd-Party Audit Approved
April 20, 2019 Ethereum’s Recent Decline in Hashrate ‘Not Surprising’: Cyber Threat Expert Explains | CryptoGlobe
June 14, 2019 Proposed Ethereum Istanbul Hard Fork Combed With A Fine Tooth at Cat Herders Meeting
July 13, 2019 ¿Qué es ProgPoW? La propuesta de algoritmo contra mineros ASIC en Ethereum | CriptoNoticias
August 17, 2019 Ethereum: ProgPow will be activated on the mainnet next year as a part of Istanbul 2 - AMBCrypto
August 18, 2019 Ethereum’s ProgPoW To Be Released The First Quarter Of 2020 | UseTheBitcoin
August 19, 2019 Ethereum to Switch to ProgPoW Mining Algorithm in Upcoming Istanbul Hard Fork
September 8, 2019 Ethereum: ProgPoW high level design goals are reasonable towards achieving its intended economic effect - AMBCrypto
September 11, 2019 Chinese Firm Linzhi Set To Mass Produce Ethereum and ETC ASIC Miners As Tests Go Live
September 18, 2019 Ethereum ProgPOW author uninvited from ETC Summit due to Craig Wright association | CryptoSlate
September 19, 2019 Ethereum reveals launch dates for testing Istanbul - Decrypt
September 19, 2019 Hashing Out: ProgPoW Debate Kicks Up in Ethereum Community Again
September 19, 2019 ETC Summit Invitees List Has No Space for Kristy Minehan
September 22, 2019 Ethereum ProgPoW upgrade causing chain split more likely to be from the user side instead of the miner side - AMBCrypto
September 23, 2019 ProgPow advocate uninvited to Ethereum Classic Summit over links to Craig Wright
September 24, 2019 ProgPoW backer steps down from controversial role - Decrypt
September 25, 2019 ProgPOW author steps down as Core Scientific CTO, vows to implement algorithm on Ethereum | CryptoSlate
September 25, 2019 Ethereum ProgPoW proponent Kristy-Leigh Minehan steps down citing perceived conflict of interest - AMBCrypto
September 25, 2019 Core Scientific CTO Steps Down To Push Through Ethereum ProgPOW
September 25, 2019 ProgPoW author Kristy-Leigh Minehan resigns as CTO of Core Scientific | Cryptopolitan
September 26, 2019 New Ethereum ASIC dominates GPU mining performance | CryptoSlate
September 26, 2019 New Ethereum ASIC Fuels Discord Among Ethereum Community
September 28, 2019 The (alleged) plot against the Ethereum network - Decrypt
October 9, 2019 ProgPoW, the Algorithm Dividing the Ethereum Community: a GPU Manufacturer Ploy? - Ethereum World News
October 9, 2019 Ethereum Hard Fork Is Coming — Here’s What You Need to Know About ‘Istanbul’ – BeInCrypto October 27, 2019 Ethereum ProgPoW’s raison d’etre: To be or not to be - AMBCrypto
November 4, 2019 Aragon Opposes Change to Ethereum’s Mining Algorithm Before 2.0 Version
November 7, 2019 Aragon community against Ethereum ProgPOW
November 8, 2019 Ethereum Istanbul Hard Fork Release Date Confirmed By Core Developer
November 16, 2019 Ethereum ProgPoW audit contributors on Gitcoin to be refunded in full - AMBCrypto
November 26, 2019 Ethereum’s Buterin: PoW algorithms offering medium-level ASIC resistance can be created - AMBCrypto
December 17, 2019 Ethereum devs move ProgPoW into ‘Eligible for Inclusion’ list - AMBCrypto
January 1, 2020 [Is the ASIC Resistance dream closer to reality, despite claims of it being a myth? - AMBCrypto](https://eng.ambcrypto.com/is-the-asic-resistance-dream-closer-to-reality-despite-claims-of-it-being-a-myth/
submitted by greerso to ethereum [link] [comments]

I earned about 4000% more btc with my android tablet than with a $250 ASIC mini rig setup using GekkoScience Newpac USB miners!

Requirements:
1.) Android Device with access to Google Play Store. *I haven't tried yet but you may be able to use tis on Android TV devces as well by sideloading. If anyone has success before I try, let me know! -Note, I did this with a Samsung Galaxy Tab S6 so its a newer more powerful device. If your android is older, your profts will most likely be less than what I earned but to give a projected range I also tested on my Raspberry Pi 4 running a custom LineageOS rom that doesn't allow the OS to make full use of the Pi's specs and I still got 500 h/s on that with Cloud boost, so about 60% of what my Tab 6 with MUCH Higher Specs does.
**Hey guys. Before I get started i just wanted to be clear about one thing. Yes I have seen those scammy posts sharing "miracle" boosts and fixes. I have a hard time believing stuff online anymore. But this is honestly real. Ill attach photos and explain the whole story and process below. Thanks for taking the time to read and feel free to share any thoughts, concerns, tips, etc*
So last week I finally got started with my first mini rig type mining build. I started getting into crypto about a year ago and it has taken me a long time to even grasp half of the projects out there but its been fun thus far! Anyways my rig was 2 GekkoScience Newpac USB miners, a Moonlander USB miner to pair with an FPGA i already had mining, a 10 port 60W 3.0 USB hub and 2 usb fans. The Newpacs actually are hashing at a combined 280 g/s which is actually better than their reported max hash rate when overclocked. Pleasant surpise and they are simple!! I just wanted to get a moonlander because my fpga already mines on Odocrypt for DGB and I just wanted to experience Scrypt mining and help build the DGB project. The Newpacs are mining BTC though.
After I got everything up and running i checked my payout daily average after 1 week. I averaged .01 a day TOTAL between all three miners with them all perforing ABOVE SPEC!!! I had done research so i knew I wouldnt earn much. More than anything i just wanted to learn. But still. I was kinda surprised in a negative way. Yesterday I actually earned less than .01 Frustrated I went back to scouring the web for new ideas. About a year ago, when II was starting, I saw an app on my iphone called CryptoBrowser that claimed to mine btc on your phone without actually using phone resources using a method of cloud mining. I tried it for a week and quit because I earned like .03 after a ton of use and seemed scammy. Plus my iphone actually would get very hot when doing this so I quit using it as it seemed like a possible scam with all the cryptonight browser mining hacks and malware out there.
Anyways I was on my Galaxy Tab S6 and saw that CryptoBrowser released a "PRO" edition for 3.99 on Google Play. I bought it for Sh*ts and giggles and booted it up. It came with what they called "Cloud Boost" Essentially this is a button you press and it multiplys the estimated hashrate that it gives you device by the number shown on the boost button. (With the purchase of PRO you get one free x10 boost. You can purchase additional boosts to use with other android devices but those are actually pretty pricy. Another x10 boost was like $25 if i remember correctly).
I played with it for about an hour to see if it actually worked like it said it would this time. To my surprise, as i was browsing, my device didnt increase in temperature AT ALL!!!!! I checked my tast manager to confirm and it was indeed true, my memory and usage barely went up. it was giving me an estimated range of 80-105 on the hashrate. Once i pushed the x10 boost button, that went to 800-1150 h/s. I switched my screen to not go to sleep, plugged it to the charge and let it run on the browser page, hashing. When you push the boost button, it runs for 3 hours at the boosted speeds. After that it goes back to normal but if you press the button again, it boosts everything again. There is no limit to how many times you use it. After checking what I earned after 24 hours, I HAD MADE .40 in BTC!!!!! I JUST EARNED OVER 4000% MORE THAN MY $280 MINING RIG EARNED ME!!!! I was blown away. Maybe this was a fluke? I did it again next day. Every 3 hours or so I would push the button again but thats all. Sure enough, .35 that day. Also, it realy BTC. I requested a payout and although it took like 12 hours for them to send me an email stating they had just sent it, I actually did recieve the state amount of BTC within 24 hours in my personal wallet. The fees to send are SUPER LOW!. Like .01
Below I will list the steps I took, along with an explanation of thier "Mining" process on Androids. Reminder, this ONLY WORKS ON ANDROIDS. Also DO NOT use cryptobrowser on a physcal laptop or desktop. I ran it on an old laptop for three days last year and it fried it. It does actually use your hardware on those platforms to mine and it is not efficnet at all as I suspect they prob steal over half of your power for themselves using the REAL RandomX protocol via browser mining which is EXTREMELY INEFFICIENT DONT TRY IT!!
-----How To Do This Yourself:
Cryptotab Browser states the program works on Android devices by estimating what it thinks the hashrate would be for your device specs and siimulates what you would mine in a remote server however you still earn that estimated coin amount. It is not a SHA-256 process or coin that they say is mining, rather it is XMR and they swap that and pay it out to you in BTC Bitcoin. However I know damn well my Tab S6 doesnt hash 80-105 h/s on RandomX because I have done it with a moodified XMRig module i ported to Android. I got 5 h/s a sec if I was getting any hashes at all. But thats besides the point as I still was making money.
Now, when you press that cloud boost button it immediately boosts that hash rate it estimates by the number on the cloud boost. As stated above, you can purchase more boosts and gift them or use them on extra android devices that you may have. Again, they are pricey so I'm not doing that plus it would just mean that I have another device that I have to leave on and open. The boosts come in x2, x4, x6, x8 and x10 variants. Again, they have unlimited uses.
Here is the link to grab yourself CryptoBrowser Pro from CryptoTab. This IS A REFERRAL LINK! This is where I benefit from doing tis tutorial. Like i said, I want to be transparent as this is not a scam but I'm also not doing this out of the love of my heart. Their referral system works in that people that use the donwload the app using your link are your stage 1 referrals. Anytime they are mining, you earn a 15% bonus. So say they mine $.30 one day. You would get paid out an additional $.045 in your own balance (it does not come out of the referred user balance fyi so no worries). Then lets say that referred miner also gets their own referrals. I would get a 10% bonus on whatever THOSE people mine. This goes on and on for like 8 tiers. Each tier the bonus percntage essential halves. So again, I stand to benefit from this but it also is stupid to not make this visible as its WAY CHEAPER, EASIER AND MORE PROFITABLE TO GET BTC USING THIS METHOD THAN IT IS USING ASICS!! THIS EARNS ALMOST AS MUCH BTC AS AN ANTMINER S7 DOES RUNNING 24/7 ONLY WITHOUT THE HUGE ELLECTRICTY BILL AND COSTS!!!!)
Thats it. Again, if you have concerns, let me know or if you have suggestions, other tips, etc... mention those as well!!!
https://cryptotabbrowser.com/8557319
Links to Picture Proof http://imgur.com/gallery/P13bEsB
submitted by Afraid_Balance to earnbitcoin [link] [comments]

Transcript of discussion between an ASIC designer and several proof-of-work designers from #monero-pow channel on Freenode this morning

[08:07:01] lukminer contains precompiled cn/r math sequences for some blocks: https://lukminer.org/2019/03/09/oh-kay-v4r-here-we-come/
[08:07:11] try that with RandomX :P
[08:09:00] tevador: are you ready for some RandomX feedback? it looks like the CNv4 is slowly stabilizing, hashrate comes down...
[08:09:07] how does it even make sense to precompile it?
[08:09:14] mine 1% faster for 2 minutes?
[08:09:35] naturally we think the entire asic-resistance strategy is doomed to fail :) but that's a high-level thing, who knows. people may think it's great.
[08:09:49] about RandomX: looks like the cache size was chosen to make it GPU-hard
[08:09:56] looking forward to more docs
[08:11:38] after initial skimming, I would think it's possible to make a 10x asic for RandomX. But at least for us, we will only make an ASIC if there is not a total ASIC hostility there in the first place. That's better for the secret miners then.
[08:13:12] What I propose is this: we are working on an Ethash ASIC right now, and once we have that working, we would invite tevador or whoever wants to come to HK/Shenzhen and we walk you guys through how we would make a RandomX ASIC. You can then process this input in any way you like. Something like that.
[08:13:49] unless asics (or other accelerators) re-emerge on XMR faster than expected, it looks like there is a little bit of time before RandomX rollout
[08:14:22] 10x in what measure? $/hash or watt/hash?
[08:14:46] watt/hash
[08:15:19] so you can make 10 times more efficient double precisio FPU?
[08:16:02] like I said let's try to be productive. You are having me here, let's work together!
[08:16:15] continue with RandomX, publish more docs. that's always helpful.
[08:16:37] I'm trying to understand how it's possible at all. Why AMD/Intel are so inefficient at running FP calculations?
[08:18:05] midipoet ([email protected]/web/irccloud.com/x-vszshqqxwybvtsjm) has joined #monero-pow
[08:18:17] hardware development works the other way round. We start with 1) math then 2) optimization priority 3) hw/sw boundary 4) IP selection 5) physical implementation
[08:22:32] This still doesn't explain at which point you get 10x
[08:23:07] Weren't you the ones claiming "We can accelerate ProgPoW by a factor of 3x to 8x." ? I find it hard to believe too.
[08:30:20] sure
[08:30:26] so my idea: first we finish our current chip
[08:30:35] from simulation to silicon :)
[08:30:40] we love this stuff... we do it anyway
[08:30:59] now we have a communication channel, and we don't call each other names immediately anymore: big progress!
[08:31:06] you know, we russians have a saying "it was smooth on paper, but they forgot about ravines"
[08:31:12] So I need a bit more details
[08:31:16] ha ha. good!
[08:31:31] that's why I want to avoid to just make claims
[08:31:34] let's work
[08:31:40] RandomX comes in Sep/Oct, right?
[08:31:45] Maybe
[08:32:20] We need to audit it first
[08:32:31] ok
[08:32:59] we don't make chips to prove sw devs that their assumptions about hardware are wrong. especially not if these guys then promptly hardfork and move to the next wrong assumption :)
[08:33:10] from the outside, this only means that hw & sw are devaluing each other
[08:33:24] neither of us should do this
[08:33:47] we are making chips that can hopefully accelerate more crypto ops in the future
[08:33:52] signing, verifying, proving, etc.
[08:34:02] PoW is just a feature like others
[08:34:18] sech1: is it easy for you to come to Hong Kong? (visa-wise)
[08:34:20] or difficult?
[08:34:33] or are you there sometimes?
[08:34:41] It's kind of far away
[08:35:13] we are looking forward to more RandomX docs. that's the first step.
[08:35:31] I want to avoid that we have some meme "Linzhi says they can accelerate XYZ by factor x" .... "ha ha ha"
[08:35:37] right? we don't want that :)
[08:35:39] doc is almost finished
[08:35:40] What docs do you need? It's described pretty good
[08:35:41] so I better say nothing now
[08:35:50] we focus on our Ethash chip
[08:36:05] then based on that, we are happy to walk interested people through the design and what else it can do
[08:36:22] that's a better approach from my view than making claims that are laughed away (rightfully so, because no silicon...)
[08:36:37] ethash ASIC is basically a glorified memory controller
[08:36:39] sech1: tevador said something more is coming (he just did it again)
[08:37:03] yes, some parts of RandomX are not described well
[08:37:10] like dataset access logic
[08:37:37] RandomX looks like progpow for CPU
[08:37:54] yes
[08:38:03] it is designed to reflect CPU
[08:38:34] so any ASIC for it = CPU in essence
[08:39:04] of course there are still some things in regular CPU that can be thrown away for RandomX
[08:40:20] uncore parts are not used, but those will use very little power
[08:40:37] except for memory controller
[08:41:09] I'm just surprised sometimes, ok? let me ask: have you designed or taped out an asic before? isn't it risky to make assumptions about things that are largely unknown?
[08:41:23] I would worry
[08:41:31] that I get something wrong...
[08:41:44] but I also worry like crazy that CNv4 will blow up, where you guys seem to be relaxed
[08:42:06] I didn't want to bring up anything RandomX because CNv4 is such a nailbiter... :)
[08:42:15] how do you guys know you don't have asics in a week or two?
[08:42:38] we don't have experience with ASIC design, but RandomX is simply designed to exactly fit CPU capabilities, which is the best you can do anyways
[08:43:09] similar as ProgPoW did with GPUs
[08:43:14] some people say they want to do asic-resistance only until the vast majority of coins has been issued
[08:43:21] that's at least reasonable
[08:43:43] yeah but progpow totally will not work as advertised :)
[08:44:08] yeah, I've seen that comment about progpow a few times already
[08:44:11] which is no surprise if you know it's just a random sales story to sell a few more GPUs
[08:44:13] RandomX is not permanent, we are expecting to switch to ASIC friendly in a few years if possible
[08:44:18] yes
[08:44:21] that makes sense
[08:44:40] linzhi-sonia: how so? will it break or will it be asic-able with decent performance gains?
[08:44:41] are you happy with CNv4 so far?
[08:45:10] ah, long story. progpow is a masterpiece of deception, let's not get into it here.
[08:45:21] if you know chip marketing it makes more sense
[08:45:24] linzhi-sonia: So far? lol! a bit early to tell, don't you think?
[08:45:35] the diff is coming down
[08:45:41] first few hours looked scary
[08:45:43] I remain skeptical: I only see ASICs being reasonable if they are already as ubiquitous as smartphones
[08:45:46] yes, so far so good
[08:46:01] we kbew the diff would not come down ubtil affter block 75
[08:46:10] yes
[08:46:22] but first few hours it looks like only 5% hashrate left
[08:46:27] looked
[08:46:29] now it's better
[08:46:51] the next worry is: when will "unexplainable" hashrate come back?
[08:47:00] you hope 2-3 months? more?
[08:47:05] so give it another couple of days. will probably overshoot to the downside, and then rise a bit as miners get updated and return
[08:47:22] 3 months minimum turnaround, yes
[08:47:28] nah
[08:47:36] don't underestimate asicmakers :)
[08:47:54] you guys don't get #1 priority on chip fabs
[08:47:56] 3 months = 90 days. do you know what is happening in those 90 days exactly? I'm pretty sure you don't. same thing as before.
[08:48:13] we don't do any secret chips btw
[08:48:21] 3 months assumes they had a complete design ready to go, and added the last minute change in 1 day
[08:48:24] do you know who is behind the hashrate that is now bricked?
[08:48:27] innosilicon?
[08:48:34] hyc: no no, and no. :)
[08:48:44] hyc: have you designed or taped out a chip before?
[08:48:51] yes, many years ago
[08:49:10] then you should know that 90 days is not a fixed number
[08:49:35] sure, but like I said, other makers have greater demand
[08:49:35] especially not if you can prepare, if you just have to modify something, or you have more programmability in the chip than some people assume
[08:50:07] we are chipmakers, we would never dare to do what you guys are doing with CNv4 :) but maybe that just means you are cooler!
[08:50:07] and yes, programmability makes some aspect of turnaround easier
[08:50:10] all fine
[08:50:10] I hope it works!
[08:50:28] do you know who is behind the hashrate that is now bricked?
[08:50:29] inno?
[08:50:41] we suspect so, but have no evidence
[08:50:44] maybe we can try to find them, but we cannot spend too much time on this
[08:50:53] it's probably not so much of a secret
[08:51:01] why should it be, right?
[08:51:10] devs want this cat-and-mouse game? devs get it...
[08:51:35] there was one leak saying it's innosilicon
[08:51:36] so you think 3 months, ok
[08:51:43] inno is cool
[08:51:46] good team
[08:51:49] IP design house
[08:51:54] in Wuhan
[08:52:06] they send their people to conferences with fake biz cards :)
[08:52:19] pretending to be other companies?
[08:52:26] sure
[08:52:28] ha ha
[08:52:39] so when we see them, we look at whatever card they carry and laugh :)
[08:52:52] they are perfectly suited for secret mining games
[08:52:59] they made at most $6 million in 2 months of mining, so I wonder if it was worth it
[08:53:10] yeah. no way to know
[08:53:15] but it's good that you calculate!
[08:53:24] this is all about cost/benefit
[08:53:25] then you also understand - imagine the value of XMR goes up 5x, 10x
[08:53:34] that whole "asic resistance" thing will come down like a house of cards
[08:53:41] I would imagine they sell immediately
[08:53:53] the investor may fully understand the risk
[08:53:57] the buyer
[08:54:13] it's not healthy, but that's another discussion
[08:54:23] so mid-June
[08:54:27] let's see
[08:54:49] I would be susprised if CNv4 ASICs show up at all
[08:54:56] surprised*
[08:54:56] why?
[08:55:05] is only an economic question
[08:55:12] yeah should be interesting. FPGAs will be near their limits as well
[08:55:16] unless XMR goes up a lot
[08:55:19] no, not *only*. it's also a technology question
[08:55:44] you believe CNv4 is "asic resistant"? which feature?
[08:55:53] it's not
[08:55:59] cnv4 = Rabdomx ?
[08:56:03] no
[08:56:07] cnv4=cryptinight/r
[08:56:11] ah
[08:56:18] CNv4 is the one we have now, I think
[08:56:21] since yesterday
[08:56:30] it's plenty enough resistant for current XMR price
[08:56:45] that may be, yes!
[08:56:55] I look at daily payouts. XMR = ca. 100k USD / day
[08:57:03] it can hold until October, but it's not asic resistant
[08:57:23] well, last 24h only 22,442 USD :)
[08:57:32] I think 80 h/s per watt ASICs are possible for CNv4
[08:57:38] linzhi-sonia where do you produce your chips? TSMC?
[08:57:44] I'm cruious how you would expect to build a randomX ASIC that outperforms ARM cores for efficiency, or Intel cores for raw speed
[08:57:48] curious
[08:58:01] yes, tsmc
[08:58:21] Our team did the world's first bitcoin asic, Avalon
[08:58:25] and upcoming 2nd gen Ryzens (64-core EPYC) will be a blast at RandomX
[08:58:28] designed and manufactured
[08:58:53] still being marketed?
[08:59:03] linzhi-sonia: do you understand what xmr wants to achieve, community-wise?
[08:59:14] Avalon? as part of Canaan Creative, yes I think so.
[08:59:25] there's not much interesting oing on in SHA256
[08:59:29] Inge-: I would think so, but please speak
[08:59:32] hyc: yes
[09:00:28] linzhi-sonia: i am curious to hear your thoughts. I am fairly new to this space myself...
[09:00:51] oh
[09:00:56] we are grandpas, and grandmas
[09:01:36] yet I have no problem understanding why ASICS are currently reviled.
[09:01:48] xmr's main differentiators to, let's say btc, are anonymity and fungibility
[09:01:58] I find the client terribly slow btw
[09:02:21] and I think the asic-forking since last may is wrong, doesn't create value and doesn't help with the project objectives
[09:02:25] which "the client" ?
[09:02:52] Monero GUI client maybe
[09:03:12] MacOS, yes
[09:03:28] What exactly is slow?
[09:03:30] linzhi-sonia: I run my own node, and use the CLI and Monerujo. Have not had issues.
[09:03:49] staying in sync
[09:03:49] linzhi-sonia: decentralization is also a key principle
[09:03:56] one that Bitcoin has failed to maintain
[09:04:39] hmm
[09:05:00] looks fairly decentralized to me. decentralization is the result of 3 goals imo: resilient, trustless, permissionless
[09:05:28] don't ask a hardware maker about physical decentralization. that's too ideological. we focus on logical decentralization.
[09:06:11] physical decentralization is important. with bulk of bitnoin mining centered on Chinese hydroelectric dams
[09:06:19] have you thought about including block data in the PoW?
[09:06:41] yes, of course.
[09:07:39] is that already in an algo?
[09:08:10] hyc: about "centered on chinese hydro" - what is your source? the best paper I know is this: https://coinshares.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Mining-Whitepaper-Final.pdf
[09:09:01] linzhi-sonia: do you mine on your ASICs before you sell them?
[09:09:13] besides testing of course
[09:09:45] that paper puts Chinese btc miners at 60% max
[09:10:05] tevador: I think everybody learned that that is not healthy long-term!
[09:10:16] because it gives the chipmaker a cost advantage over its own customers
[09:10:33] and cost advantage leads to centralization (physical and logical)
[09:10:51] you guys should know who finances progpow and why :)
[09:11:05] but let's not get into this, ha ha. want to keep the channel civilized. right OhGodAGirl ? :)
[09:11:34] tevador: so the answer is no! 100% and definitely no
[09:11:54] that "self-mining" disease was one of the problems we have now with asics, and their bad reputation (rightfully so)
[09:13:08] I plan to write a nice short 2-page paper or so on our chip design process. maybe it's interesting to some people here.
[09:13:15] basically the 5 steps I mentioned before, from math to physical
[09:13:32] linzhi-sonia: the paper you linked puts 48% of bitcoin mining in Sichuan. the total in China is much more than 60%
[09:13:38] need to run it by a few people to fix bugs, will post it here when published
[09:14:06] hyc: ok! I am just sharing the "best" document I know today. it definitely may be wrong and there may be a better one now.
[09:14:18] hyc: if you see some reports, please share
[09:14:51] hey I am really curious about this: where is a PoW algo that puts block data into the PoW?
[09:15:02] the previous paper I read is from here http://hackingdistributed.com/2018/01/15/decentralization-bitcoin-ethereum/
[09:15:38] hyc: you said that already exists? (block data in PoW)
[09:15:45] it would make verification harder
[09:15:49] linzhi-sonia: https://the-eye.eu/public/Books/campdivision.com/PDF/Computers%20General/Privacy/bitcoin/meh/hashimoto.pdf
[09:15:51] but for chips it would be interesting
[09:15:52] we discussed the possibility about a year ago https://www.reddit.com/Monero/comments/8bshrx/what_we_need_to_know_about_proof_of_work_pow/
[09:16:05] oh good links! thanks! need to read...
[09:16:06] I think that paper by dryja was original
[09:17:53] since we have a nice flow - second question I'm very curious about: has anyone thought about in-protocol rewards for other functions?
[09:18:55] we've discussed micropayments for wallets to use remote nodes
[09:18:55] you know there is a lot of work in other coins about STARK provers, zero-knowledge, etc. many of those things very compute intense, or need to be outsourced to a service (zether). For chipmakers, in-protocol rewards create an economic incentive to accelerate those things.
[09:19:50] whenever there is an in-protocol reward, you may get the power of ASICs doing something you actually want to happen
[09:19:52] it would be nice if there was some economic reward for running a fullnode, but no one has come up with much more than that afaik
[09:19:54] instead of fighting them off
[09:20:29] you need to use asics, not fight them. that's an obvious thing to say for an asicmaker...
[09:20:41] in-protocol rewards can be very powerful
[09:20:50] like I said before - unless the ASICs are so useful they're embedded in every smartphone, I dont see them being a positive for decentralization
[09:21:17] if they're a separate product, the average consumer is not going to buy them
[09:21:20] now I was talking about speedup of verifying, signing, proving, etc.
[09:21:23] they won't even know what they are
[09:22:07] if anybody wants to talk about or design in-protocol rewards, please come talk to us
[09:22:08] the average consumer also doesn't use general purpose hardware to secure blockchains either
[09:22:14] not just for PoW, in fact *NOT* for PoW
[09:22:32] it requires sw/hw co-design
[09:23:10] we are in long-term discussions/collaboration over this with Ethereum, Bitcoin Cash. just talk right now.
[09:23:16] this was recently published though suggesting more uptake though I guess https://btcmanager.com/college-students-are-the-second-biggest-miners-of-cryptocurrency/
[09:23:29] I find it pretty hard to believe their numbers
[09:24:03] well
[09:24:09] sorry, original article: https://www.pcmag.com/news/366952/college-kids-are-using-campus-electricity-to-mine-crypto
[09:24:11] just talk, no? rumors
[09:24:18] college students are already more educated than the average consumer
[09:24:29] we are not seeing many such customers anymore
[09:24:30] it's data from cisco monitoring network traffic
[09:24:33] and they're always looking for free money
[09:24:48] of course anyone with "free" electricity is inclined to do it
[09:24:57] but look at the rates, cannot make much money
[09:26:06] Ethereum is a bloated collection of bugs wrapped in a UI. I suppose they need all the help they can get
[09:26:29] Bitcoin Cash ... just another get rich quick scheme
[09:26:38] hmm :)
[09:26:51] I'll give it back to you, ok? ha ha. arrogance comes before the fall...
[09:27:17] maye we should have a little fun with CNv4 mining :)
[09:27:25] ;)
[09:27:38] come on. anyone who has watched their track record... $75M lost in ETH at DAO hack
[09:27:50] every smart contract that comes along is just waiting for another hack
[09:27:58] I just wanted to throw out the "in-protocol reward" thing, maybe someone sees the idea and wants to cowork. maybe not. maybe it's a stupid idea.
[09:29:18] linzhi-sonia: any thoughts on CN-GPU?
[09:29:55] CN-GPU has one positive aspect - it wastes chip area to implement all 18 hash algorithms
[09:30:19] you will always hear roughly the same feedback from me:
[09:30:52] "This algorithm very different, it heavy use floating point operations to hurt FPGAs and general purpose CPUs"
[09:30:56] the problem is, if it's profitable for people to buy ASIC miners and mine, it's always more profitable for the manufacturer to not sell and mine themselves
[09:31:02] "hurt"
[09:31:07] what is the point of this?
[09:31:15] it totally doesn't work
[09:31:24] you are hurting noone, just demonstrating lack of ability to think
[09:31:41] what is better: algo designed for chip, or chip designed for algo?
[09:31:43] fireice does it on daily basis, CN-GPU is a joke
[09:31:53] tevador: that's not really true, especially in a market with such large price fluctuations as cryptocurrency
[09:32:12] it's far less risky to sell miners than mine with them and pray that price doesn't crash for next six months
[09:32:14] I think it's great that crypto has a nice group of asicmakers now, hw & sw will cowork well
[09:32:36] jwinterm yes, that's why they premine them and sell after
[09:32:41] PoW is about being thermodynamically and cryptographically provable
[09:32:45] premining with them is taking on that risk
[09:32:49] not "fork when we think there are asics"
[09:32:51] business is about risk minimization
[09:32:54] that's just fear-driven
[09:33:05] Inge-: that's roughly the feedback
[09:33:24] I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I think it's not so simple as saying "it always happens"
[09:34:00] jwinterm: it has certainly happened on BTC. and also on XMR.
[09:34:19] ironically, please think about it: these kinds of algos indeed prove the limits of the chips they were designed for. but they don't prove that you cannot implement the same algo differently! cannot!
[09:34:26] Risk minimization is not starting a business at all.
[09:34:34] proof-of-gpu-limit. proof-of-cpu-limit.
[09:34:37] imagine you have a money printing machine, would you sell it?
[09:34:39] proves nothing for an ASIC :)
[09:35:05] linzhi-sonia: thanks. I dont think anyone believes you can't make a more efficient cn-gpu asic than a gpu - but that it would not be orders of magnitude faster...
[09:35:24] ok
[09:35:44] like I say. these algos are, that's really ironic, designed to prove the limitatios of a particular chip in mind of the designer
[09:35:50] exactly the wrong way round :)
[09:36:16] like the cache size in RandomX :)
[09:36:18] beautiful
[09:36:29] someone looked at GPU designs
[09:37:31] linzhi-sonia can you elaborate? Cache size in RandomX was selected to fit CPU cache
[09:37:52] yes
[09:38:03] too large for GPU
[09:38:11] as I said, we are designing the algorithm to exactly fit CPU capabilities, I do not claim an ASIC cannot be more efficient
[09:38:16] ok!
[09:38:29] when will you do the audit?
[09:38:35] will the results be published in a document or so?
[09:38:37] I claim that single-chip ASIC is not viable, though
[09:39:06] you guys are brave, noone disputes that. 3 anti-asic hardforks now!
[09:39:18] 4th one coming
[09:39:31] 3 forks were done not only for this
[09:39:38] they had scheduled updates in the first place
[09:48:10] Monero is the #1 anti-asic fighter
[09:48:25] Monero is #1 for a lot of reasons ;)
[09:48:40] It's the coin with the most hycs.
[09:48:55] mooooo
[09:59:06] sneaky integer overflow, bug squished
[10:38:00] p0nziph0ne ([email protected]/vpn/privateinternetaccess/p0nziph0ne) has joined #monero-pow
[11:10:53] The convo here is wild
[11:12:29] it's like geo-politics at the intersection of software and hardware manufacturing for thermoeconomic value.
[11:13:05] ..and on a Sunday.
[11:15:43] midipoet: hw and sw should work together and stop silly games to devalue each other. to outsiders this is totally not attractive.
[11:16:07] I appreciate the positive energy here to try to listen, learn, understand.
[11:16:10] that's a start
[11:16:48] <-- p0nziph0ne ([email protected]/vpn/privateinternetaccess/p0nziph0ne) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
[11:16:54] we won't do silly mining against xmr "community" wishes, but not because we couldn'd do it, but because it's the wrong direction in the long run, for both sides
[11:18:57] linzhi-sonia: I agree to some extent. Though, in reality, there will always be divergence between social worlds. Not every body has the same vision of the future. Reaching societal consensus on reality tomorrow is not always easy
[11:20:25] absolutely. especially at a time when there is so much profit to be made from divisiveness.
[11:20:37] someone will want to make that profit, for sure
[11:24:32] Yes. Money distorts.
[11:24:47] Or wealth...one of the two
[11:26:35] Too much physical money will distort rays of light passing close to it indeed.
submitted by jwinterm to Monero [link] [comments]

GPU Mining Crash Course - START HERE!

Welcome All to the GPUMining Crash Course!
With the increase in prices in cryptocurrency, a lot of people are getting back into mining and a lot of people are brand new to the concept overall. So, I quickly wrote this crash course to help you understand what to expect and how to successfully mine your first cryptocurrency. This crash course isn't gonna have all of the fluff you'd see in a normal publication. This is just everything you need to know to get up and running on your first cryptocurrency mining rig.

What is cryptocurrency mining?

One of the main things about cryptocurrencies is that they are "decentralized". Sounds great, but WTF does that even mean? Well, the easiest way to explain it is...
You know how if you want to send your friend/family money digitally, you can do so through your bank. Your bank likely takes a transaction fee and in a few days they will transfer the money. Since cryptocurrencies are decentralized, they don't have a bank or organization to fulfill the transfer of money. Instead, they outsource the computing power of their cryptocurrency network to miners (soon to be you). These miners are verifying transactions, securing the blockchain, and powering the cryptocurrency's specific network among other things. As an incentive, the miners collect transaction fees on the transactions that they verify and collect block rewards while new currency is still being introduced into the ecosystem.

What kind of rig should I build?

You can mine cryptocurrencies using your CPU, GPU, FPGA, or ASIC, but this is a GPU Mining subreddit, so I will cater this to GPUs.
For building a great all-around GPU rig, there are two models of GPUs that I'd recommend:
Both of these GPUs have solid hashrates across most mining algorithms and for a decent price! You should be able to find both of these kinds of GPUs used for around $200-$250 each, which is a great price if you know what happened during the last mining craze! ($200 GPUs were out of stock everywhere and people were reselling them for $600+ each)
There are also plenty of great AMD GPUs for mining, but I've worked mostly with Nvidia so that's why both of my recommendations are Nvidia and not AMD.
Other parts to your rig that you'll need are listed below. Most of these can be pieces of crap and are just needed to make the rig actually run, but the one spot you DON'T want to cheap out on is the power supply unit. A decent power supply unit will keep your home from burning down while also keeping your rigs up and running smoothly. Here are my recommendations:

She's built, now what?

Now you need to do a few things. I am a Windows miner, so I will be speaking to Windows here:
  1. Update Windows - Do all of the updates. Just do it.
  2. Update Drivers - Go to the EVGA website and download GeForce experience. It will keep your GPU drivers up to date.
  3. Go to Windows Device Manager and make sure all of your GPUs show up under "Display Adapters". If it is there, but it isn't showing the Name/Model of the GPU as the name, right click it and select "Update Driver". This should fix it.
Assuming you've done all of this, you're ready to download a mining application.

Mining Software

There are tons to choose from! Claymore, Phoenix, EWBF, LolMiner, etc... It can be overwhelming pretty quickly since they all have different algorithm support, speeds, efficiencies, and a whole lot more. On top of that, in order to get them running you need to set up batch files to call the proper exe, point you to the correct pool, and a whole bunch of other stuff that can be confusing to a new user. Not to mention, you will probably need a separate miner, config file, batch file, etc. for each different algorithm that you're interested in mining on.
Instead, I recommend that you download a miner management software that will take care of most of this tedious work for you. There are a few in the sidebar, but the /GPUMining favorite is AIOMiner. It was developed by our very own community member, xixspiderxix with the intention of making mining as easy as possible to do and without any fees. It supports over 100 different algorithms, so you'll be able to mine nearly ANY cryptocurrency you'd like. Just download it from their website and it will take you through a quick tutorial to help you get set up! You can also connect your rig to their website for remote monitoring and control. You've probably seen a few of their posts around this subreddit.
Other Windows mining softwares include:
Note: Many mining softwares have fees built into them. Most are around 1%, but can go as high as 5% or greater! You want a mining software with little or no fees at all so that you get to keep as much cryptocurrency as possible. These fees aren't something you actively pay, the software will automatically take it by mining on the developers behalf for a given amount of time and then switching back to mining on your own behalf. So, please be diligent in the software that you evaluate and make sure it is reputable.

I keep hearing about NiceHash. What is that?

The asshole of the mining industry. Jk, but not really.
NiceHash is a software program that allows you to sell your rig's hashing power to someone on their marketplace. They market themselves as profitable mining, but you're not really mining. You're selling your power in exchange for Bitcoin.
They did a great job telling people that with them, you're always mining the most profitable coin, but that's just not true. Since it is a mining marketplace, they make you mine whatever their most expensive contract is. If their contracts are below market prices, then you're not operating as efficiently and profitably as you could be.
NiceHash also has a sketchy history, which continues to this day. In 2017, they were hacked and lost $65M worth of Bitcoin. No one got paid out for MONTHS and many of their executives conveniently resigned. Their platform is also used to destroy cryptocurrencies. Since people are able to purchase mining power on their platform, people have used their platform to purchase enough mining power to control individual cryptocurrencies and duplicate coins, which increased the malicious user's wealth while completely destroying the integrity of the coin's blockchain. HoriZEN (formerly ZenCash), Ethereum Classic, and many other great cryptocurrencies have been the victim of NiceHash's platform.
For this and many other reasons, we highly recommend that you stay AWAY from Nicehash. We understand that it is extremely easy to use and you get paid in bitcoin, but they are destroying the industry with their greed and lack of motivation to change their platform for the protection of cryptocurrencies.

Concluding Thoughts

This is pretty much everything you need to know to get started. We covered the hardware, setting up the software, which software to use, and AIOMiner's tutorial will get you up to speed on how to actually mine the cryptocurrency that you want better than I can explain it, so I'll leave that part to them.
If you have any questions on this crash course, please leave a comment below where myself and other community members will be able to help you out.
submitted by The_Brutally_Honest to gpumining [link] [comments]

AMA with Sinovate, a new GPU friendly coin with new innovations to the space

SINOVATE
What SINOVATE is aiming on Cryptocurrency Market?
SINOVATE is created for Innovation and it aims to keep bringing never before seen Innovations in the crypto market.
What is Infinity Nodes, why different from Classical Masternode System? Infinity Nodes are groundbreaking evolved masternodes that solves the inflation problem. Traditional masternodes start with high ROI but with very large inflation and that inflation is what inevitably makes them fail.
What is IDS, why is it better than cloud storage? And size providers how to get/ earn SIN?
IDS = Incorruptible Data Storage.
IDS is a peer-to-peer private networking system, which will permit transactions and storage between miners and Infinity Node owners. Competitors including Sia, Storj, BitTorrent and even IPFS solutions reward individuals for serving and hosting content on their hard drive space, which requires a 24/7 uptime for computers. User hard drives must remain open and the rewards received must justify the costs incurred for leaving computer online.
In IDS, the private networking of decentralized storage relies solely on the SINOVATE Blockchain, with only node owners receiving rewards as compensation for utilising their hard drive resources to run an Infinity Node. Node owners will get rewards both from the Infinity Nodes and from storing confidential data.
IDS will have 5 steps of evolution.
SINOVATE has 533 tp/s. How are you planning to use this as a use case?
Scalability is one of the biggest problems in cryptocurrencies. POS only or centralized cryptocurrencies have higher scalability but are not suitable for the original Satoshi plan. Satoshi Nakamoto’s dream was everybody to mine their own coins without being centralized so SINOVATE blockchain not only is the most scalable POW cryptocurrency but will also have much more increased scalability in the future. Mass adoption requires high scalability especially when it will be used in real life as a payment means. Are we going to see SINOVATE Payment System in the future?
SINOVATE payment gateway will be released this year with high scalability and less than 3 seconds transaction times with the help of FlashSend.
What is SINOVATE aiming with X25X Algorithm?
SINOVATE formerly SUQA always aimed at the ordinary user starting with the X22i custom algorithm and upgraded to X25X to fight the big hardware companies so everyone can mine their own coin without letting ASIC,FPGA companies dominate the network.
Algo Comparison Chart
We are committed to remaining ASIC / FPGA resistant and such use an ever evolving algorithm, the latest variation named X25X launched with the last update. It is protected from difficulty attacks using Dark Gravity Wave v3 and raises the memory requirements compared to X22i bt a factor of five making it harder for ASIC / FPGA to implement.
What is Komodo dPOW , and when is the plan implementation on SINOVATE?
dPoW diagram
KOMODO DPoW is a working and trusted 51 % Attack protection technology to prevent any kind of malicious attacks by the help of notarized data of Bitcoin, KOMODO and SINOVATE chain.
What is the current status on mobile wallets? We saw a mobile wallet trailer.
Mobile wallets will be released in July 2019 as a custom good looking wallet tailored to the specific needs of SIN Blockchain
What is the plan for adoption in real life SINOVATE?
Our team draws from a large diversity of skills from many areas of business and across many different industries. This allows us to design and hone the experience of interacting with the SINOVATE Blockchain at many levels, from developers, business leaders and operational levels, down to the end-user experience.
This allows us to develop software and user experiences from the perspective of all involved, ensuring that the end user is the primary focus.
What is the current financial status on SINOVATE?
SINOVATE are transparent about the financial status of the foundation and the activity taken with funds. We regularly publish updates and the latest one for June is here.
What partnerships will there be in the future?
Besides the Masternodes related partnerships, SINOVATE partnered with KOMODO for the integration of dPoW 51% attack protection, which will be active at the end of July or early August 2019.
As the foundation’s mission is to grow the space for all. We are happy to work with all projects and businesses both by learning from the great work others have undertaken and offering something back to other projects with our open source code.
With Governance what can it do for the community?
Decentralized governance is the future of any successful blockchain project, SINOVATE believes that blockchain will be ubiquitous in the underlying infrastructure and services in the future of everyday life. Having fair voting for developments, marketing and innovations of the SINOVATE chain will be very important for everyone.
Hopefully that covers as an introduction, please fire away below with any questions you might have for us and feel free to join sinovate for the latest news!
Edit - Thanks for the great questions and discussion. First round answered by our CEO u/cryplander, feel free to shoot more :)
submitted by nick_badlands to gpumining [link] [comments]

Mining for Profitability - Horizen (formerly ZenCash) Thanks Early GPU Miners

Mining for Profitability - Horizen (formerly ZenCash) Thanks Early GPU Miners
Thank you for inviting Horizen to the GPU mining AMA!
ZEN had a great run of GPU mining that lasted well over a year, and brought lots of value to the early Zclassic miners. It is mined using Equihash protocol, and there have been ASIC miners available for the algorithm since about June of 2018. GPU mining is not really profitable for Horizen at this point in time.
We’ve got a lot of miners in the Horizen community, and many GPU miners also buy ASIC miners. Happy to talk about algorithm changes, security, and any other aspect of mining in the questions below. There are also links to the Horizen website, blog post, etc. below.
So, if I’m not here to ask you to mine, hold, and love ZEN, what can I offer? Notes on some of the lessons I’ve learned about maximizing mining profitability. An update on Horizen - there is life after moving on from GPU mining. As well as answering your questions during the next 7 days.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Mining for Profitability - Horizen (formerly ZenCash) Thanks Early GPU Miners

Author: Rolf Versluis - co-founder of Horizen

In GPU mining, just like in many of the activities involved with Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, there is both a cycle and a progression. The Bitcoin price cycle is fairly steady, and by creating a personal handbook of actions to take during the cycle, GPU miners can maximize their profitability.
Maximizing profitability isn't the only aspect of GPU mining that is important, of course, but it is helpful to be able to invest in new hardware, and be able to have enough time to spend on building and maintaining the GPU miners. If it was a constant process that also involved losing money, then it wouldn't be as much fun.

Technology Progression

For a given mining algorithm, there is definitely a technology progression. We can look back on the technology that was used to mine Bitcoin and see how it first started off as Central Processing Unit (CPU) mining, then it moved to Graphical Processing Unit (GPU) mining, then Field Programmable Gate Array (FPGA), and then Application Specific Integrated Circuit (ASIC).
Throughout this evolution we have witnessed a variety of unsavory business practices that unfortunately still happen on occasion, like ASIC Miner manufacturers taking pre-orders 6 months in advance, GPU manufacturers creating commercial cards for large farms that are difficult for retail customers to secure and ASIC Miner manufacturers mining on gear for months before making it available for sale.
When a new crypto-currency is created, in many cases a new mining algorithm is created also. This is important, because if an existing algorithm was used, the coin would be open to a 51% attack from day one, and may not even be able to build a valid blockchain.
Because there's such a focus on profitable software, developers for GPU mining applications are usually able to write a mining application fairly rapidly, then iterate it to the limit of current GPU technology. If it looks like a promising new cryptocurrency, FPGA stream developers and ASIC Hardware Developers start working on their designs at the same time.
The people who create the hashing algorithms run by the miners are usually not very familiar with the design capabilities of Hardware manufacturers. Building application-specific semiconductors is an industry that's almost 60 years old now, and FPGA’s have been around for almost 35 years. This is an industry that has very experienced engineers using advanced design and modeling tools.
Promising cryptocurrencies are usually ones that are deploying new technology, or going after a big market, and who have at least a team of talented software developers. In the best case, the project has a full-stack business team involving development, project management, systems administration, marketing, sales, and leadership. This is the type of project that attracts early investment from the market, which will drive the price of the coin up significantly in the first year.
For any cryptocurrency that's a worthwhile investment of time, money, and electricity for the hashing, there will be a ASIC miners developed for it. Instead of fighting this technology progression, GPU miners may be better off recognizing it as inevitable, and taking advantage of the cryptocurrency cycle to maximize GPU mining profitability instead.

Cryptocurrency Price Cycle

For quality crypto projects, in addition to the one-way technology progression of CPU -> GPU -> FPGA -> ASIC, there is an upward price progression. More importantly, there is a cryptocurrency price cycle that oscillates around an overall upgrade price progression. Plotted against time, a cycle with an upward progressions looks like a sine wave with an ever increasing average value, which is what we see so far with the Bitcoin price.

Cryptocurrency price cycle and progression for miners
This means mining promising new cryptocurrencies with GPU miners, holding them as the price rises, and being ready to sell a significant portion in the first year. Just about every cryptocurrency is going to have a sharp price rise at some point, whether through institutional investor interest or by being the target of a pump-and-dump operation. It’s especially likely in the first year, while the supply is low and there is not much trading volume or liquidity on exchanges.
Miners need to operate in the world of government money, as well as cryptocurrency. The people who run mining businesses at some point have to start selling their mining proceeds to pay the bills, and to buy new equipment as the existing equipment becomes obsolete. Working to maximize profitability means more than just mining new cryptocurrencies, it also means learning when to sell and how to manage money.

Managing Cash for Miners

The worst thing that can happen to a business is to run out of cash. When that happens, the business usually shuts down and goes into bankruptcy. Sometimes an investor comes in and picks up the pieces, but at the point the former owners become employees.
There are two sides to managing cash - one is earning it, the other is spending it, and the cryptocurrency price cycle can tell the GPU miner when it is the best time to do certain things. A market top and bottom is easy to recognize in hindsight, and harder to see when in the middle of it. Even if a miner is able to recognize the tops and bottoms, it is difficult to act when there is so much hype and positivity at the top of the cycle, and so much gloom and doom at the bottom.
A decent rule of thumb for the last few cycles appears to be that at the top and bottom of the cycle BTC is 10x as expensive compared to USD as the last cycle. Newer crypto projects tend to have bigger price swings than Bitcoin, and during the rising of the pricing cycle there is the possibility that an altcoin will have a rise to 100x its starting price.
Taking profits from selling altcoins during the rise is important, but so is maintaining a reserve. In order to catch a 100x move, it may be worth the risk to put some of the altcoin on an exchange and set a very high limit order. For the larger cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin it is important to set trailing sell stops on the way up, and to not buy back in for at least a month if a sell stop gets triggered. Being able to read price charts, see support and resistance areas for price, and knowing how to set sell orders are an important part of mining profitability.

Actions to Take During the Cycle

As the cycle starts to rise from the bottom, this is a good time to buy mining hardware - it will be inexpensive. Also to mine and buy altcoins, which are usually the first to see a price rise, and will have larger price increases than Bitcoin.
On the rise of the cycle, this is a good time to see which altcoins are doing well from a project fundamentals standpoint, and which ones look like they are undergoing accumulation from investors.
Halfway through the rise of the cycle is the time to start selling altcoins for the larger project cryptos like Bitcoin. Miners will miss some of the profit at the top of the cycle, but will not run out of cash by doing this. This is also the time to stop buying mining hardware. Don’t worry, you’ll be able to pick up that same hardware used for a fraction of the price at the next bottom.
As the price nears the top of the cycle, sell enough Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies to meet the following projected costs:
  • Mining electricity costs for the next 12 months
  • Planned investment into new miners for the next cycle
  • Additional funds needed for things like supporting a family or buying a Lambo
  • Taxes on all the capital gains from the sale of cryptocurrencies
It may be worth selling 70-90% of crypto holdings, maintaining a reserve in case there is second upward move caused by government bankruptcies. But selling a large part of the crypto is helpful to maintaining profitability and having enough cash reserves to make it through the bottom part of the next cycle.
As the cycle has peaked and starts to decline, this is a good time to start investing in mining facilities and other infrastructure, brush up on trading skills, count your winnings, and take some vacation.
At the bottom of the cycle, it is time to start buying both used and new mining equipment. The bottom can be hard to recognize.
If you can continue to mine all the way through bottom part of the cryptocurrency pricing cycle, paying with the funds sold near the top, you will have a profitable and enjoyable cryptocurrency mining business. Any cryptocurrency you are able to hold onto will benefit from the price progression in the next higher cycle phase.

An Update on Horizen - formerly ZenCash

The team at Horizen recognizes the important part that GPU miners played in the early success of Zclassic and ZenCash, and there is always a welcoming attitude to any of ZEN miners, past and present. About 1 year after ZenCash launched, ASIC miners became available for the Equihash algorithm. Looking at a chart of mining difficulty over time shows when it was time for GPU miners to move to mining other cryptocurrencies.

Horizen Historical Block Difficulty Graph
Looking at the hashrate chart, it is straightforward to see that ASIC miners were deployed starting June 2018. It appears that there was a jump in mining hashrate in October of 2017. This may have been larger GPU farms switching over to mine Horizen, FPGA’s on the network, or early version of Equihash ASIC miners that were kept private.
The team understands the importance of the cryptocurrency price cycle as it affects the funds from the Horizen treasury and the investments that can be made. 20% of each block mined is sent to the Horizen non-profit foundation for use to improve the project. Just like miners have to manage money, the team has to decide whether to spend funds when the price is high or convert it to another form in preparation for the bottom part of the cycle.
During the rise and upper part of the last price cycle Horizen was working hard to maximize the value of the project through many different ways, including spending on research and development, project management, marketing, business development with exchanges and merchants, and working to create adoption in all the countries of the world.
During the lower half of the cycle Horizen has reduced the team to the essentials, and worked to build a base of users, relationships with investors, exchanges, and merchants, and continue to develop the higher priority software projects. Lower priority software development, going to trade shows, and paying for business partnerships like exchanges and applications have all been completely stopped.
Miners are still a very important part of the Horizen ecosystem, earning 60% of the block reward. 20% goes to node operators, with 20% to the foundation. In the summer of 2018 the consensus algorithm was modified slightly to make it much more difficult for any group of miners to perform a 51% attack on Horizen. This has so far proven effective.
The team is strong, we provide monthly updates on a YouTube live stream on the first Wednesday of each month where all questions asked during the stream are addressed, and our marketing team works to develop awareness of Horizen worldwide. New wallet software was released recently, and it is the foundation application for people to use and manage their ZEN going forward.
Horizen is a Proof of Work cryptocurrency, and there is no plan to change that by the current development team. If there is a security or centralization concern, there may be change to the algorithm, but that appears unlikely at this time, as the hidden chain mining penalty looks like it is effective in stopping 51% attacks.
During 2019 and 2020 the Horizen team plans to release many new software updates:
  • Sidechains modification to main software
  • Sidechain Software Development Kit
  • Governance and Treasury application running on a sidechain
  • Node tracking and payments running on a sidechain
  • Conversion from blockchain to a Proof of Work BlockDAG using Equihash mining algorithm
After these updates are working well, the team will work to transition Horizen over to a governance model where major decisions and the allocation of treasury funds are done through a form of democratic voting. At this point all the software developed by Horizen is expected to be open source.
When the governance is transitioned, the project should be as decentralized as possible. The goal of decentralization is to enable resilience and preventing the capture of the project by regulators, government, criminal organizations, large corporations, or a small group of individuals.
Everyone involved with Horizen can be proud of what we have accomplished together so far. Miners who were there for the early mining and growth of the project played a large part in securing the network, evangelizing to new community members, and helping to create liquidity on new exchanges. Miners are still a very important part of the project and community. Together we can look forward to achieving many new goals in the future.

Here are some links to find out more about Horizen.
Horizen Website – https://horizen.global
Horizen Blog – https://blog.horizen.global
Horizen Reddit - https://www.reddit.com/Horizen/
Horizen Discord – https://discord.gg/SuaMBTb
Horizen Github – https://github.com/ZencashOfficial
Horizen Forum – https://forum.horizen.global/
Horizen Twitter – https://twitter.com/horizenglobal
Horizen Telegram – https://t.me/horizencommunity
Horizen on Bitcointalk – https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2047435.0
Horizen YouTube Channel – https://www.youtube.com/c/Horizen/
Buy or Sell Horizen
Horizen on CoinMarketCap – https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/zencash/

About the Author:

Rolf Versluis is Co-Founder and Executive Advisor of the privacy oriented cryptocurrency Horizen. He also operates multiple private cryptocurrency mining facilities with hundreds of operational systems, and has a blog and YouTube channel on crypto mining called Block Operations.
Rolf applies his engineering background as well as management and leadership experience from running a 60 person IT company in Atlanta and as a US Navy nuclear submarine officer operating out of Hawaii to help grow and improve the businesses in which he is involved.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
Thank you again for the Ask Me Anything - please do. I'll be checking the post and answering questions actively from 28 Feb to 6 Mar 2019 - Rolf
submitted by Blockops to gpumining [link] [comments]

Vertcoin Mining AMA

What is Vertcoin?

Vertcoin was created in 2014. It is a direct hedge against long term mining consensus centralization on the Bitcoin mining network. Vertcoin achieves its mining consensus solely through Graphics Cards as they are the most abundant / widely available consensus devices that produce a reasonable amount of hashrate. This is done using a mining algorithm that deliberately geared against devices like ASICs, FPGAs and CPUs (due to botnets) making them extremely inefficient. Consensus distribution over time is the most important aspect of a blockchain and should not be taken lightly. It is critical that you understand what blockchain specifications mean/do to fully understand Vertcoin.

Mining Vertcoin

When users of our network send each other Vertcoin, their transactions are secured by a process called mining. Miners will compose a so-called block out of the pending transactions, and need to perform a large number of computations called hashes in order to produce the Proof-of-Work. With this Proof-of-Work, the block is accepted by the network and the transactions in it become confirmed.
Mining is essentially a race. Whoever finds a valid Proof-of-Work and gets the block propagated over more than half of the Vertcoin network first, wins this race and is allowed to reward themselves with the block reward. The block reward is how new Vertcoin come in circulation. This block reward started at 50 VTC when Vertcoin was launched, and halves every four years. The current block reward is 25 VTC.
Vertcoin's One Click Miner: https://github.com/vertcoin-project/One-Click-Minereleases
Learn more about mining here: https://vertcoin.org/mine/
Specification List:
· Launch date: Jan 11, 2014
· Proof-Of-Work (Consensus Mechanism)
· Total Supply: 84,000,000 Vertcoin
· Preferred Consensus Device: GPU
· Mining Algorithm: Lyra2REv3 (Made by Vertcoin)
· Blocktime: 2.5 minutes
· SegWit: Activated
· Difficulty Adjustment Algorithm: Kimoto Gravity Well (Every Block)
· Block Halving: 4 year interval
· Initial Block Reward: 50 coins
· Current Block Reward: 25 coin
More spec information can be found here: https://vertcoin.org/specs-explained/

Why Does Vertcoin Use GPUs Then?

ASIC’s (Manufactuer Monopoly)
If mining were just a spade sure, use the most powerful equipment which would be an ASIC. The problem is ASICs are not widely available, and just happen to be controlled by a monopoly in China.
So, you want the most widely available tool that produces a fair amount of hashrate, which currently manifests itself as a Graphics Card.
CPUs would be great too but unfortunately there are viruses that take over hundreds of thousands of computers called Botnets (they’re almost as bad as ASICs).

Mining In Pools

Because mining is a race, it’s difficult for an individual miner to acquire enough computational power to win this race solo. Therefore there’s a concept called pool-mining. With pool-mining, miners cooperate in finding the correct Proof-of-Work for the block, and share the block reward based on the work contributed. The amount of work contributed is measured in so-called shares. Finding the Proof-of-Work for a share is much easier than finding it for a block, and when the cooperating miners find the Proof-of-Work for the block, they distribute the reward based on the number of shares each miner found. Vertcoin always recommends using P2Pool to keep mining as decentralized as possible.
How Do I Get Started?
If you want to get started mining, check out the Mine Vertcoin page.

Vertcoin just forked to Lyra2REv3 and we are currently working on Verthash

Verthash is and was under development before we decided to hard fork to Lyra2REv3. While Verthash would’ve resulted in the same effect for ASICs (making them useless for mining Vertcoin), the timeline was incompatible with the desire to get rid of ASICs quickly. Verthash is still under development and tries to address the outsourcability problem.
Verthash is an I/O bound algorithm that uses the blockchain data as input to the hashing algorithm. It therefore requires miners to have all the blockchain data available to them, which is currently about 4 GB of data. By making this mining data mandatory, it will become harder for auto profit switching miners — like the ones that rent out their GPU to Nicehash — because they will need to keep a full node running while mining other algorithms for the moment Verthash becomes more profitable — the data needs to be available immediately since updating it can take a while.
Over the past month, we have successfully developed a first implementation of Verthash in the Vertcoin Core code base. Within the development team we have run a few nodes on Testnet to test the functionality — and everything seems to work properly. The next step is to build out the GPU miners for AMD and Nvidia. This is a NOETA at the moment, since we’re waiting on GPU developers which are in high demand. Once the miners are ready, we’ll be releasing the Vertcoin 0.15 beta that hardforks the testnet together with the miners for the community to have a testrun. Given the structural difference between Lyra2RE and Verthash, we’ll have to run the testnet for a longer period than we did with the Lyra2REv3 hard fork. We’ll have to make sure the system is reliable before hardforking our mainnet. So the timeline will be longer than with the Lyra2REv3 hard fork.
Some people in the community have voiced concerns about the fact that Verthash development is not being done “out in the open”, i.e.: the code commits are not visible on Github. The main two reasons for us to keep our cards to our chest at this stage are: (1) only when the entire system including miners has been coded up can we be sure the system works, we don’t want to release preliminary stuff that doesn’t work or isn’t secure. Also (2) we don’t want to give hardware manufacturers or mining outsourcing platforms a head start on trying to defeat the mechanisms we’ve put in place.

Links and Resources

· Twitter: https://twitter.com/Vertcoin
· Donations: vertcoin.org/donate
· Join our Discord: https://discord.gg/vertcoin
· Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/vertcoin/
· Official Website: https://vertcoin.org/
· Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/vertcoin
· Vertcoin Talk: https://soundcloud.com/vertcoin-talk
· Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/vertcoin
submitted by Canen01 to gpumining [link] [comments]

THE END OF ALL ASIC MINERS? - Monero's New Superweapon: "Time Locked Proof of Non-ASIC work challenge reward" algorithms.

I propose the following algorithm to end this War of attrition with ASIC / FPGA manufacturers , hopefully once and for all and save us Precious PoW Tweaks during the upcoming forks.
"A time-locked, Proof of 'Non-ASIC work' Challenge reward algorithm"
Here's an image to help you visualise how the algorithm works (details below):
https://imgur.com/a/9S8dA
Here's why we need it:
ASIC manufacturers mine in Secret to attack our decentralized network. They'll win the war since they'll 'get their investment back' before we brick their ASICs, allowing them to launch never-ending attacks against our decentralization, for eternity.
Quick Overview
This algorithm uses the concept of "time-locked reward challenges".
The algorithm ‘time-locks’ the reward, then issues a ‘non-ASIC’ work challenge during each regular PoW Fork, which distributes mined rewards only to CPU and GPU miners who can pass the challenge and prove they are not ASICS, by maintaining their hashrate during the ASIC downtime.
These Hash-rate challenges after PoW Forks successfully ‘detect’, and ‘Severely Penalize’ anyone Mining with an ASIC/FPGA, even those in Secret.
Proof of Concept: An Actual Demonstration
I'll demonstrate this algorithm in action:
Please see this image to help you Visualise how the algorithm works:
https://imgur.com/a/9S8dA
There is a critical flaw and uniquely identifying feature that exists in absolutely 'ALL ASIC and FPGA miners', even those mining in Secret.
As most of you may know, with the upcoming V7 PoW hardfork,
Instead of just destroying an ASIC with a fork, we can further exploit this to attack the ASIC Manufacturer or Miner by taking back all their mined rewards and giving them to the community
The Special timeframe is PoW Fork + 'N' Days. ('N' being however many days remaining where it would be "impossible" to build and startup a new ASIC/FPGA after the fork.)
To exploit this, the algorithm introduces a period of time called the "Mining Rewards Collection Timeframe" (MRCT), the time period in between regular PoW Hardforks. the grey shaded area in this image
This "Mining Rewards Collection Timeframe" is a time whereby all mining profit rewards are 'time-locked' or held hostage in escrow, on either the mining pool, or on the Actual Blockchain code itself, or Both, depending on where this algorithm is eventually deployed.
The algorithm stores the wallet address a mining reward belongs to, and the maximum hash rate (or maximum value adjusted share rate per day) observed during the "Mining rewards collection timeframe" for that particular wallet address.
This "Mining Rewards Collection Timeframe" can be of any duration as required by the developers; 1,2,3,4,5,6 Months or longer . The longer This Timeframe, the more dangerous it is to ASIC miners. Meaning we don't have to rush with forks.
Since it's time-locked, mined coins/rewards cannot be cashed out until the coming challenge; However, mining pools can still choose to payout smaller miners before that time if they have a 'good stable Non-Asic Hash challenge passing history', or a deposit on file, or at their own risk, so most good miners don't have to wait to cashout rewards!. Big miners on the other hand, won't care! Why? Because the delay doesn't cost them anything. (it's a TINY TINY inconvenience compared to the damage ASICs would do to GPU mining profits. I hope this makes sense)
Now for the Critical ANTI-ASIC Work Challenge.
Time passes and the mining rewards collection timeframe ends with a Hardfork that changes the PoW algorithm slightly,
All ASICS and FPGAs are INSTANTLY destroyed.
At the same time, the mining rewards from that collection timeframe are now ready to be paid out.
Since only the CPU / GPU miners are able to hash normally,
The Algorithm now issues a Hash Rate challenge to determine how much of the coins mined were actually mined by ASIC or FPGA miners.
The challenge is nothing special. Miners just have to leave their miners running normally at maximum speed for the period of the challenge, same as they do everyday!
During this challenge, their "Average Maximum Hash rate during the challenge" is compared to the "Maximum Hash Rate speed" recorded on the blockchain during the Mining Rewards Collection Timeframe.
See the green dotted line in the image
Thus at this point, since ASICs are DEAD, they cannot Hash at the same rate during this challenge period, so any significant difference in hashrate would thus clearly indicate the use of an ASIC or FPGA miner.
Now, we have all the information we need to STRIP ASIC Miners of ALL their gains, and Reward GPU miners instead.
As shown in the earlier image
What if a 1 GPU breaks in a 12 GPU mining farm during the challenge? (Very rare) or for some reason, you can't mine during that period? then the miner can simply rent the GPUs from nicehash for the Challenge. An ASIC miner however, cannot use this strategy (because ASICS are not GPUs, explained further below). Also we can implement a 2nd chance option; the confiscated reward may be frozen for the next Cycle; and the miner may get a 2nd chance to prove the hashrate again, with a % reward penalty.
The Beautiful thing is that If ASIC miners fail the challenge, Everyone gets a Bonus share of the Reward Forefitted by the ASIC miners, So Everyone wants the ASIC miners to fail so they get Free extra money. and thus have a financial reason to support this algorithm.
*There is no escaping it... or is there?
Is it ASIC PROOF? Can you Cheat this algorithm?
I've also tried to see if you can work around this algorithm:
  • Example 1: What if they switched in GPUS to mine for an ASIC during the challenge? Well, that wouldn't work. When the challenge comes, they can either save the rewards mined by the GPUs, or save the rewards mined by the ASICs, One will always be lost and result is the same anyway because you'd only get paid for the Hash rate of the GPU. The ASIC portion of the hash rate will ALWAYS be lost.
  • Example 2: What if they use the GPUs to mine a different coin and have them only hash for the ASIC during the challenge period?
  • Consider the Antminer X3. at 200KH/s, to support just "ONE ASIC", they would need over 200 RX 580 Cards or 100 VEGA cards to pass the challenge... costing well over $60,000 (SIXTY THOUSAND DOLLARS) and if they depreciate at ~ 10~15% a year, they'd lose $6000~$9000 a year. it's not enough to cover your losses,
  • Also, What other coin could you mine? If ASICS are so powerful, there won't be another coin except those running this algorithm. Then, the dev can choose to issue the challenge at the same point as the other coin using the same algorithm, so they lose all rewards from one coin as 1 rig cannot sustain two challenge algorithms at the same time.
  • Example 3: What if they just leave some GPUS on standby to avoid the power costs? Then ASIC's would still be unable to be mass produced anyway. Because for every ASIC Mass produced, you'd need to Mass Produce 200 times the GPUS to support them in their place, and own of all them. practically impossible.
  • Example 4: What if they rented hashing power from Nicehash to fill in during the Challenge period?
  • Yes, but so can we! The beautiful thing about this algorithm, is if we rent the limited hashing power on Nicehash first before them at break even or loss, it doesn't matter, Because, the ASIC miner cannot rent and hash rate and will fail the challenge, and Forefit the ENORMOUS amount of Rewards to the community. Imagine, Mining at such a high rate for months on end , the rewards confiscated and paid to GPU miners will easily offset any of the tiny losses renting hashrate from Nicehash, so ultimately, The ASIC miners lose Everything, and the community (you and me) gets all their money.
  • Also if ASICs Dominate the crypto market, there won't be any GPU to rent, all remaining coins would be mining this algorithm, meaning they would have to save their own hashrate for themselves, not rent it to ASIC miners. otherwise they lose their reward. Brand new users may rent their GPU's but its no where near enough to cover the ASIC hash shortfall in the challenge.
  • Example 5: What if they waited till we exhausted our supply of PoW fork tweaks? That's the beauty of this algorithm!. We don't actually have to tweak the PoW algorithm on a constant basis! We can intentionally leave it the same. So Everyone passes the Challenge, Then when we do detect an asic "trying to Mine their Money Back in secret (as they do now)", We tweak the PoW at the Next Hardfork. Destroying and bankrupting their very first attempt, and we get all their money and rewards, So there's no need to waste a PoW tweak in a pre-emptive strike, because the rewards are Time-Locked to the future. We can lie in wait with a single PoW like a Trap, and eat them alive (literally we get all their rewards after the challenge!). We can maintain this lethal threat to ASIC manufacturers without having to change the PoW at all!
And remember, all this effort is just for ONLY, ONE ASIC. meaning you Can't mass produce it.
So ultimately it wouldn't even make sense to even develop an ASIC, as you'd be far more profitable just mining only with the 200+ GPU's required to cheat the algorithm.
*So in summary, *
  • No ASIC/FPGA miner can escape the challenge. Not even those running in secret.
  • All ASIC miners are guaranteed to suffer a huge (possibly fatal) financial loss, with no prospect of any return on investment. Time locked rewards ensure No secret pre-mining with ASICs is possible. ASICs are destroyed with each challenge, all R&D and manufacturing costs and the electricity bill used to power them is wasted for basically "ZERO returns",
  • …..and lets not forget that all their rewards gets given away to other honest miners like you and Me!. ( LOL!) or potentially the developers of the fork :)
  • As long as the algorithm is active and used by multiple coins, no ASICs will ever exist to mine in secret,
  • We save precious PoW tweak changes, since there's no need for a pre-emptive PoW strike to prevent 'ASIC hit and run' pre-mine scenarios.
  • ASIC manufacturers see that the war is un-winnable and go invest in other things,
So, in theory, The War Ends. (at least for a very good part of the future)
As they say: " Don't build a wall and hide in fear.... Build a wall and launch missiles from behind it against the enemy so they will never dare attack us again."
I would like to point out that time locked reward challenges are already in use by the Olympic games to Strip drug cheats in the past by storing samples and testing them in the future, and it's also in the PPLNS minig pool algorithms to deter pool hopping cheats, and also in the Bitcoin's Lightning network in the form of decrementing time-locks" that 'enforce the transfer of funds' under certain conditions.
Is it beautiful? Will it work? Can it be done? Let's discuss this
submitted by MoneroChan to Monero [link] [comments]

Profitable Crypto Mining: ASIC vs GPU, Which One Is Better?

Profitable Crypto Mining: ASIC vs GPU, Which One Is Better?
If you’re new to mining you probably have multiple questions running through your head right now. Good news is that it gets easier with time, assuming that you do your homework and research, and we will try to help you out.
One of the common questions is whether one should choose GPU or ASIC mining and we definitely have some advice on that topic.
When we’re considering classic POW mining we can quickly rule out CPU hardware for not being efficient and FPGA hardware because of its high costs. This leaves you with ASIC and GPU to choose from.

https://preview.redd.it/igev3y4v8pv31.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=2a0c9271fc36252181d086e74101d13875619c80

Buying Mining Equipment

Let’s get things straight — you won’t be able to buy ASIC devices in any of you local electronic shops, even in the biggest ones. There are two ways you can get this hardware: buying it online which shouldn’t be a problem these days unless that’s the newest model you’re after. Second option is to find a local company that sells ASIC equipment.
Also, you can try to purchase the equipment directly from the manufacture company, however, mind the huge customs and delivery fees if the company is located abroad.
It is highly recommended to test ASICs before buying them to make sure the equipment works properly.
GPU or graphics cards and other equipment that you will need to build your very own mining farm can be easily purchased at a regular computer store. The only problem you may have is getting the right set of hardware, so make sure to come prepared.
When buying a used (second-hand) graphics card don’t forget to test it.
What’s better?
If you’re not into hardware and have no clue how to set up a farm by yourself buying ASIC equipment would be a better option as you won’t need to build anything yourself.

Warranty Policy

In general, an official warranty policy for ASIC hardware is up to 180 days since the equipment was shipped to the buyer. When the seller is confident about the quality of their equipment, they can offer their personal 1 month warranty.
When you’re buying computer hardware in most of the cases you are getting full 2 year warranty policy including exchange or repairments of the equipment.
What’s better?
Warranty policy is especially important when you have no chance to check the equipment yourself or when you’re buying large inventory of it. Also, if you plan to go with overclocking, you will probably need a decent warranty as well.
We need to add that when you’re using the equipment accordingly and conduct regular maintenance both ASIC and GPU can work past the warranty period.

Setting Up Process

With ASICs it’s simple: you plug and connect it, pick a pool to join and start mining right away.
With GPU, it’s a little complicated. First, you need to build your farm. You will need a framework, motherboard with installed CPU and cooling, storage unit, power supply, risers and video cards. If you have no experience with assembling computer hardware you’re gonna need to save some time and prepare to put extra effort. Once your rig is ready you will have to install OS and optimize it which is usually even harder than setting up a rig. But luckily we’ve got a solution for that. CoinFly can do the work for you and help you with setting up and optimizing your equipment.
What’s better?
Although ASICs are very easy, you shouldn’t quickly give up on GPU mining. If assembling computer hardware is not a big problem for you, CoinFly will help you with setting it up.

Maintenance

ASIC equipment won’t give you too much trouble: it’s safe, stable, and doesn’t require any special knowledge. Maintenance includes cleaning off dust and oiling the fans.
When dealing with rigs, you will have to work a little harder and study the basics about at least graphics cards’ temperatures and operational frequency. A stable workflow depends heavily on the software and as it has a tendency to fail, it could become a problem. Unless you’re using CoinFly — our system will notify you in case of emergency so you can tune your equipment online.
What’s better?
Once again, when it comes to maintaining ASICs are almost trouble-free. GPU rigs are a bit tricky but when using the right tools like CoinFly to monitor their work, it can serve you just fine.

The Noise

ASICs are loud: when you’re in a room with a working ASIC you’re gonna need to shout, so people can hear you.
GPU farms have no such problem. Some of them are almost silent and that doesn’t affect the cooling process at all.
What’s better?
Maybe the level of noise your equipment makes was not the first issue on your list but we recommend you to consider it. ASICs are suitable only for the commercial and industrial premises.

Mining

ASICs can work with only one algorithm and mine one or several types of cryptocurrencies and are perfect for mining Bitcoin and its forks.
GPU rigs are universal: you can mine a huge variety of coins if you set your miner right.
What’s better?
If you want to mine Bitcoin, you gotta go with ASIC. But think again if that’s what you’re really after. After all, you can choose mining any altcoin that you’d like with your GPU rig and then simply exchange it to BTC. And if you’re lucky enough to mine a coin that will do good ASICs do not give you that choice, however, their mining capability is higher.

Relevance of the Equipment

ASICs are quickly getting out of date as the new models come along. Back in the day, the new versions used to come out every half a year and they were 10 times more efficient. In general, you need to change your ASIC hardware every year.
GPU equipment can perfectly serve you for 2 to 3 years and if you wish to sell the graphics card afterwards that wouldn’t be a problem either.
What’s better?
In terms of relevance, it’s probably reasonable to go with the GPU.

Return on Investment

In the long run, the profitableness of ASICs is higher but because the new models are being released quite frequently you cannot expect huge profits. It is always important to do your research and get the most relevant equipment.
GPU hardware will take its time to pay you back but it also depends if you manage to find the right coin to mine that will eventually increase your profits.
What’s better?
ASIC mining is definitely a good option for those who don’t want to constantly monitor the crypto market.
But in the case that you’re interested in what’s happening in the crypto space and you also have time to do your own research, the GPU farm would the better choice. If you’re not willing to spend your efforts on that, CoinFly Autopilot mode will help you mine the most profitable coin on the market automatically.

Conclusion

ASICs are great for people who can provide a non-residential space for mining and not willing to spend too much time and effort for setting up the equipment and stay updated with the latest trends in the crypto industry.
GPU rigs are suitable for mining at home and won’t scare away all the crypto and computer enthusiasts. If you’re just starting your mining journey but not sure how to do it, we recommend to register on CoinFly. From setting up your hardware to tuning it online and picking the best coin to mine at the moment — we’ve got you covered!
submitted by coinfly to CoinFly [link] [comments]

Continued censorship involving Ethereum's proposed fork to progPOW.

Our friends at Ethereum are subject to continued manipulation into forking their coin to progPOW. I decided to post this in /btc because it is the last bastion of free speech in the crypto community.
Today, after drawing attention to the sketchy history of progPOW's original proponent, my post was subjected to massive vote manipulation, and eventually deleted.
I have long suspected that progPOW favors NVIDIA miners, given the deep connections that progPOW's development team has to NVIDIA. Today, the progPOW team freely admitted that AMD miners will suffer a larger hashrate decrease compared to NVIDIA miners, so I created a poll:
Ethereum developers want to fork to ETH to progPOW [1], a proof-of-work algorithm that gives AMD GPUs a stronger hashrate penalty compared to NVIDIA [2][3]. Should Ethereum use ProgPOW for Proof-of-Work? Cast your vote with Ethereum [4].
Sources:
Below is my post that was deleted, in its entirety.
If you are curious about the CSW/Coingeek connection, scroll down.
Previous Posts
Criticism and Soft Power
I have received criticism for my posts mostly due to what people call "character attacks." I have two things to say about that:
  1. I have never engaged in any character attacks. In all cases, the character has made their modus operandi known by themselves, and I have simply shined a light on it. I don't need call people "mentally unstable gentlemen" [--source, Ohgodagirl Twitter] to get my point across.
  2. Algorithm change discussions must include economic and political introspection as well as a discussion of the proposed change's technical details. As I have stated before, progPOW would not exist without the people responsible for creating it. We must look at these people's history, character, prior accomplishments, and industry connections. The discussion must exist outside the scope of the proposed change, not inside of it.
Example: When people criticize my posts for "not looking at the technical details", they are making a mistake. If someone asked "which should we kill more often: baby seals or baby kittens?", we don't all immediately start discussing the optimal relation of kittens-per-second to seals-per-second that can be killed. No, our first reaction is "what the fuck, why should we kill anything?"
Onward
Customer complaints from people who bought cloud contracts from Kristy's previous company:
Coingeek Connection
Previously, I had promised to provide information regarding the CSW/Coingeek and Core Scientific connection.
When I was president of ImageShack.com (2003-2011), someone wanted to buy our company. When this happens, the buyer and seller usually write a purchase agreement similar to the business in which they are involved. This is done to ensure that the purchase is executed. In ImageShack's case, the buyer bought $500,000 worth of advertising from us. The logic was that ImageShack would be acquired, so they actually would pay themselves. If they didn't buy ImageShack, they would owe us $500,000.
Given the partnership between Core Scientific (Kristy's employer) and "Squire Mining" (effectively, Coingeek), I would not be surprised if Coingeek and Core Scientific made such an agreement, as well. In their case, it would likely be a hosting agreement. Since Coingeek has many ASICs, and Core Scientific is a large mining facility, I would not be surprised if those Coingeek ASICs are hosted by Core Scientific.
Individuals close to these parties can verify those claims, but I cannot share the proof at this time without revealing the identity of my sources.
Chatlog Dumps
Today, I also provide public comments from chatlog dumps showcasing Kristy Leigh Anne Minehan's deep connection to NVIDIA:
01/28/2018 - 22:34<@OhGodAGirl> Yo. ystarnaud/sling00: **I'll be meeting NV next week**. I think it's next week. The 4th! Anyway; if you have NVIDIA fixes you need for EthOS or something you want special attention on, PM me. 02/05/2018 - 06:47<@OhGodAGirl> Also I got a USB shaped like a NVIDIA GTX. It's the best thing ever. 02/05/2018 - 06:50<@OhGodAGirl> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/ffwT8M2j/IMG_2726.JPG 02/05/2018 - 06:50<@OhGodAGirl> Look at this adorable little shit. 
"Ah, but there's a catch. These USB drives are extremely rare—Nvidia only cranked out a couple thousand of these drives and will be giving them away to press and "influencers" at E3, along with 1,080 registered GeForce Experience members who are opted in to receive communications from Nvidia."
04/22/2018 - 20:17<@sling00> OhGodAGirl: what does ohgodanethlargement do 04/22/2018 - 20:17< cYnIxX3> https://youtu.be/2mj1nCfFvlI?t=2m16s 04/22/2018 - 20:19< cYnIxX3> sling00, about 10-25mh improvement to 1080 gpus. 04/22/2018 - 20:19< __virus__> about 40-50% improvement afaik 04/22/2018 - 20:21< OhGodAGirl> But...it's not under because NVIDIA asked me not to. 04/21/2018 - 16:51< OhGodAGirl> I have a ton of private tools for Mineority 04/21/2018 - 16:51< OhGodAGirl> Right now our Equihash kernel has a 25% advantage over Claymore. 04/21/2018 - 16:52< PL3> 25% on amds? 04/21/2018 - 16:52< OhGodAGirl> NVIDIA ;) 04/21/2018 - 16:52< PL3> you have claymore nvidia equi miner? 04/21/2018 - 16:52< OhGodAGirl> We're a NV only company. For now. 04/29/2018 - 00:53< OhGodAGirl> So uh, NVIDIA showed ETHlargement at an executive meeting 04/29/2018 - 00:53< OhGodAGirl> They thought it was hillarious 04/29/2018 - 00:53< acv_> that is awesome. 04/29/2018 - 01:22< OhGodAGirl> So many dicks on Youtube though 04/29/2018 - 01:22< OhGodAGirl> "RA RA IT'S A SCAM" 04/29/2018 - 01:22< OhGodAGirl> "RA RA IT WILL STEAL ALL YOUR PRIVKEYS" 04/29/2018 - 01:22< OhGodAGirl> "RA RA NO ONE IS EVER NICE IN THIS WORLD' 04/29/2018 - 01:22< OhGodAGirl> Well dammit I'm a nice person. =( 
submitted by ugtarmas to btc [link] [comments]

Transcript of Open Developer Meeting in Discord - 7/19/2019

[Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 3:58 PM
Hey everyone. The channel is now open for the dev meeting.
LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 3:58 PM
Hi
TronLast Friday at 3:59 PM
Hi all!
JerozLast Friday at 3:59 PM
:wave:
TronLast Friday at 3:59 PM
Topics: Algo stuff - x22rc, Ownership token for Restricted Assets and Assets.
JerozLast Friday at 4:00 PM
@Milo is also here from coinrequest.
MiloLast Friday at 4:00 PM
Hi :thumbsup:
Pho3nix Monk3yLast Friday at 4:00 PM
welcome, @Milo
TronLast Friday at 4:00 PM
Great.
@Milo Was there PRs for Android and iOS?
MiloLast Friday at 4:01 PM
Yes, I've made a video. Give me a second I'll share it asap.
JerozLast Friday at 4:02 PM
I missed the iOS one.
MiloLast Friday at 4:02 PM
Well its 1 video, but meant for all.
JerozLast Friday at 4:02 PM
Ah, there's an issue but no pull request (yet?)
https://github.com/RavenProject/ravenwallet-ios/issues/115
[Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 4:03 PM
nice @Milo
MiloLast Friday at 4:04 PM
Can it be that I have no video post rights?
JerozLast Friday at 4:05 PM
In discord?
MiloLast Friday at 4:05 PM
yes?
[Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 4:05 PM
just a link?
JerozLast Friday at 4:05 PM
Standard version has a file limit afaik
Pho3nix Monk3yLast Friday at 4:05 PM
try now
gave permissions
MiloLast Friday at 4:05 PM
it's not published yet on Youtube, since I didn't knew when it would be published in the wallets
file too big. Hold on i'll put it on youtube and set it on private
LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:06 PM
no worries ipfs it...:yum:
Pho3nix Monk3yLast Friday at 4:06 PM
ok, just send link when you can
[Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 4:07 PM
So guys. We released Ravencoin v2.4.0!
JerozLast Friday at 4:08 PM
If you like the code. Go update them nodes! :smiley:
[Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 4:08 PM
We are recommending that you are upgrading to it. It fixes a couple bugs in the code base inherited from bitcoin!
MiloLast Friday at 4:08 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t\_g7NpFXm6g&feature=youtu.be
sorry for the hold up
YouTube
Coin Request
Raven dev Gemiddeld
LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:09 PM
thanks short and sweet!!
KAwARLast Friday at 4:10 PM
Is coin request live on the android wallet?
TronLast Friday at 4:10 PM
Nice video.
It isn't in the Play Store yet.
Pho3nix Monk3yLast Friday at 4:10 PM
Well, this is the first time in a while where we have this many devs online. What questions do y'all have?
LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:11 PM
Algo questions?
Pho3nix Monk3yLast Friday at 4:11 PM
sure
KAwARLast Friday at 4:11 PM
KK
LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:12 PM
what are the proposed 22 algos in x22r? i could only find the original 16 plus 5 on x21.
TronLast Friday at 4:12 PM
Likely the 5 from x21 and find one more.
We need to make sure they're all similar in time profile.
liqdmetalLast Friday at 4:14 PM
should we bother fixing a asic-problem that we dont know exists for sure or not?
TronLast Friday at 4:14 PM
That's the 170 million dollar question.
[Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 4:14 PM
I would prefer to be proactive not reactive.
imo
JerozLast Friday at 4:14 PM
same
LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:15 PM
RIPEMD160 is a golden oldie but not sure on hash speed compared to the others.
liqdmetalLast Friday at 4:15 PM
in my mind we should focus on the restricted messaging etc
Sevvy (y rvn pmp?)Last Friday at 4:15 PM
probably won't know if the action was needed until after you take the action
liqdmetalLast Friday at 4:15 PM
we are at risk of being interventionistas
acting under opacity
TronLast Friday at 4:15 PM
Needs to spit out at least 256 bit. Preferably 512 bit.
LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:15 PM
ok
TronLast Friday at 4:15 PM
If it isn't 512 bit, it'll cause some extra headache for the GPU mining software.
liqdmetalLast Friday at 4:16 PM
i seek to avoid iatrogenics
TronLast Friday at 4:16 PM
Similar to the early problems when all the algos except the first one were built for 64-bytes (512-bit) inputs.
Had to look that one up. TIL iatrogenics
JerozLast Friday at 4:17 PM
I have to google most of @liqdmetal's vocabulary :smile:
liqdmetalLast Friday at 4:17 PM
@Tron tldr: basically the unseen, unintended negative side effects of the asic "cure"
Sevvy (y rvn pmp?)Last Friday at 4:18 PM
10 dolla word
liqdmetalLast Friday at 4:19 PM
we need a really strong case to intervene in what has been created.
TronLast Friday at 4:19 PM
I agree. I'm less concerned with the technical risk than I am the potential split risk experienced multiple times by Monero.
Sevvy (y rvn pmp?)Last Friday at 4:20 PM
tron do you agree that forking the ravencoin chain presents unique risks compared to other chains that aren't hosting assets?
JerozLast Friday at 4:21 PM
Yes, if you fork, you need to figure out for each asset which one you want to support.
Sevvy (y rvn pmp?)Last Friday at 4:21 PM
yeah. and the asset issuer could have a chain preference
TronLast Friday at 4:22 PM
@Sevvy (y rvn pmp?) Sure. Although, I'd expect that the asset issuers will be honor the assets on the dominant chain. Bigger concern is the branding confusion of multiple forks. See Bitcoin, Bitcoin Cash, Bitcoin SV for an example. We know they're different, but do non-crypto folks?
Hans_SchmidtLast Friday at 4:22 PM
I thought that the take-away from the recently published analyses and discussions was that ASICs for RVN may be active, but if so then they are being not much more effective than GPUs.
Sevvy (y rvn pmp?)Last Friday at 4:22 PM
agreed on all accounts there tron
TronLast Friday at 4:23 PM
I'm not yet convinced ASICs are on the network.
KAwARLast Friday at 4:23 PM
It would be better to damage an asic builder by forking after they made major expenses. Creating for them the type of deficit that could be negated by just buying instead of mining. Asic existence should be 100 percent confirmed before fork.
liqdmetalLast Friday at 4:23 PM
170million dollar question is right.lol
TronLast Friday at 4:24 PM
I've had someone offer to connect me to the folks at Fusion Silicon.
Sevvy (y rvn pmp?)Last Friday at 4:25 PM
yes. and if they are active on the network they are not particularly good ASICs
which makes it a moot point probably
TronLast Friday at 4:26 PM
The difficult part of this problem is that by the time everyone agrees that ASICs are problematic on the network, then voting the option in is likely no longer an option.
Sevvy (y rvn pmp?)Last Friday at 4:26 PM
yes. part of me wonders if we would say "okay, the clock on the asic countdown is reset by this new algo. but now the race is on"
[Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 4:26 PM
There are always risks when making a change that will fork the network. We want wait to long though, as tron said. It wont be a voting change. it will be a mandatory change at a block number.
Sevvy (y rvn pmp?)Last Friday at 4:26 PM
acknowledge the inevitable
MiloLast Friday at 4:27 PM
I had just a small question from my side. When do you think the android version would be published, and do you maybe have a time-frame for the others?
TronLast Friday at 4:27 PM
Quick poll. How would everyone here feel about a BIP9 option - separate from the new features that can be voted in?
KAwARLast Friday at 4:27 PM
Maybe voting should not be a strictly blockchain vote. A republic and a democratic voice?
[Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 4:27 PM
@Milo We can try and get a beta out next week, and publish soon after that.
MiloLast Friday at 4:28 PM
@[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs :thumbsup::slight_smile:
[Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 4:28 PM
BIP9 preemptive vote. I like it.
TronLast Friday at 4:30 PM
The advantage to a BIP9 vote is that it puts the miners and mining pools at a clear majority before activation.
LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:30 PM
Centralisation is inevitable unless we decide to resist it. ASIC's are market based and know the risks and rewards possible. A key step in resisting is sending a message. An algo change to increase asic resistance is imho a strong message. A BIP9 vote now would also be an indicator of bad actors early....
TronLast Friday at 4:30 PM
The disadvantage is that it may not pass if the will isn't there.
LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:30 PM
Before assets are on main net and cause additional issues.
KAwARLast Friday at 4:31 PM
I am not schooled in coding to have an educated voice. I only understand social problems and how it affects the economy.
SpyderDevLast Friday at 4:31 PM
All are equal on RVN
TronLast Friday at 4:31 PM
It is primarily a social problem. The tech change is less risky and is easier than the social.
LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:32 PM
All can have a share....people who want more of a share however pay for the privilege and associated risks.
KAwARLast Friday at 4:33 PM
Assets and exchange listings need to be consistent and secure.
brutoidLast Friday at 4:36 PM
I'm still not entirely clear on what the overall goal to the algo change is? Is it just to brick the supposed ASICs (unknown 45%) which could still be FPGAs as seen from the recent block analysis posted in the nest. Is the goal to never let ASICs on? Is it to brick FPGAs ultimately. Are we making Raven strictly GPU only? I'm still unclear
LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:37 PM
What about the future issue of ASICs returning after a BIP9 fork "soon"? Are all following the WP as a community? i.e asic resistant or are we prepared to change that to asic resistant for early coin emission. Ideally we should plan for the future. Could the community make a statement that no future algo changes will be required to incentivise future public asic manufacturers?
Lol. Same question @brutoid
brutoidLast Friday at 4:37 PM
Haha it is
You mind-beamed me!
[Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 4:38 PM
The is up to the community.
Currently, the feel seems like the community is anti asic forever.
The main issue is getting people to upgrade.
KAwARLast Friday at 4:38 PM
Clarity is important. Otherwise we are attacking windmills like Don Quixote.
brutoidLast Friday at 4:39 PM
I'm not getting the feeling of community ASIC hate if the last few weeks of discussion are anything to go by?
Hans_SchmidtLast Friday at 4:39 PM
A unilateral non-BIP9 change at a chosen block height is a serious thing, but anti-ASIC has been part of the RVN philosophy since the whitepaper and is therefore appropriate for that purpose.
[Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 4:39 PM
We can use the latest release as an example. It was a non forking release, announced for 2 weeks. and only ~30% of the network has upgraded.
TronLast Friday at 4:39 PM
@Hans_Schmidt Well said.
liqdmetalLast Friday at 4:40 PM
I'm not concerned about a "asic hardware problem" so much as I believe it more likely what we are seeing is several big fish miners (perhaps a single really big fish). For now I recommend standing pat on x16r. In the future I can see an algo upgrade fork to keep the algo up to date. If we start fighting against dedicated x16r hashing machines designed and built to secure our network we are more likely to go down in flames. The custom SHA256 computers that make the bitcoin the most secure network in existence are a big part of that security. If some party has made an asic that performs up to par or better than FPGA or GPU on x16r, that is a positive for this network, a step towards SHA256 security levels. It is too bad the community is in the dark regarding their developments. Therefore I think the community has to clarify its stance towards algorithm changes. I prefer a policy that will encourage the development of mining software, bitstreams and hardware by as many parties as possible. The imminent threat of ALGO fork screws the incentive up for developers.
JerozLast Friday at 4:40 PM
@brutoid the vocal ones are lenient towards asics, but the outcome of the 600+ votes seemed pretty clear.
brutoidLast Friday at 4:40 PM
This is my confusion
TronLast Friday at 4:41 PM
More hashes are only better if the cost goes up proportionally. Machines that do more hashes for less $ doesn't secure the network more, and trends towards centralization.
JerozLast Friday at 4:41 PM
I would argue for polling ever so often as it certainly will evolve dynamically with the state of crypto over time.
TronLast Friday at 4:41 PM
Measure security in two dimensions. Distribution, and $/hash.
liqdmetalLast Friday at 4:41 PM
and volume of hash
traysiLast Friday at 4:42 PM
45% of the hashrate going to one party is unhealthy, and standing pat on x16r just keeps that 45% where it is.
TronLast Friday at 4:42 PM
Volume doesn't matter if the cost goes down. For example, lets say software shows up that does 1000x better than the software from yesterday, and everyone moves to it. That does not add security. Even if the "difficulty" and embedded hashes took 1000x more attempts to find.
brutoidLast Friday at 4:42 PM
My issue is defintely centralization of hash and not so much what machine is doing it. I mine with both GPU and FPGA. Of course, the FPGAs are not on raven
TJayLast Friday at 4:44 PM
easy solution is just to replace a few of 16 current hash functions, without messing with x21r or whatever new shit
TronLast Friday at 4:44 PM
How do folks here feel about allowing CPUs back in the game?
traysiLast Friday at 4:44 PM
Botnets is my concern with CPUs
brutoidLast Friday at 4:44 PM
Botnets is my concern
SpyderDevLast Friday at 4:44 PM
Yes please.
LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:44 PM
the poll votes seem not very security conscious. More of day miners chasing profits. I love them bless! Imho the future is bright for raven, however these issues if not sorted out now will bite hard long term when asset are on the chain and gpu miners are long gone.....
ZaabLast Friday at 4:45 PM
How has the testing of restricted assets been on the test net?
liqdmetalLast Friday at 4:45 PM
Agreed. I dont think x16r is obsolete like that yet however
[Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 4:45 PM
@Zaab not enough testing at the moment.
HedgerLast Friday at 4:45 PM
Yes, how is the Testing going?
justinjjaLast Friday at 4:45 PM
Like randomX or how are cpus going to be back in the game?
TronLast Friday at 4:45 PM
@Zaab Just getting started at testing at the surface level (RPC calls), and fixing as we go.
ZaabLast Friday at 4:45 PM
And or any updates on the review of dividend code created by the community
Lokar -=Kai=-Last Friday at 4:45 PM
if the amount of hash the unknown pool has is fixed as standarderror indicated then waiting for the community of FPGAers to get onto raven might be advantageous if the fork doesn't hurt FPGAs.
ZaabLast Friday at 4:45 PM
Can't rememeber who was on it
SpyderDevLast Friday at 4:45 PM
@Zaab But we are working on it...
Lokar -=Kai=-Last Friday at 4:46 PM
more hash for votes
JerozLast Friday at 4:46 PM
@Maldon is, @Zaab
TronLast Friday at 4:46 PM
@Zaab There are unit tests and functional tests already, but we'd like more.
[Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 4:46 PM
@Zaab Dividend code is currently adding test cases for better security. Should have more update on that next meeting
KAwARLast Friday at 4:46 PM
Absolute democracy seems to resemble anarchy or at least civil war. In EVE online they have a type of community voice that get voted in by the community.
ZaabLast Friday at 4:46 PM
No worries was just curious if it was going as planned or significant issues were being found
Obviously some hiccups are expected
More testing is always better!
TronLast Friday at 4:47 PM
Who in here is up for a good civil war? :wink:
ZaabLast Friday at 4:47 PM
Tron v Bruce. Celebrity fight night with proceeds to go to the RVN dev fund
SpyderDevLast Friday at 4:48 PM
Cagefight or mudpit?
JerozLast Friday at 4:48 PM
talking about dev funds..... :wink:
Pho3nix Monk3yLast Friday at 4:49 PM
and there goes the conversation....
KAwARLast Friday at 4:49 PM
I am trying to be serious...
ZaabLast Friday at 4:49 PM
Sorry back to the ascii topic!
traysiLast Friday at 4:49 PM
@Tron What do we need in order to make progress toward a decision on the algo? Is there a plan or a roadmap of sorts to get us some certainty about what we're going to do?
LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:50 PM
Could we have 3 no BIP9 votes? No1 Friendly to asics, retain status quo. No2 change to x17r minimal changes etc, with no additional future PoW/algo upgrades. No3. Full Asic resistance x22r and see what happens...
:thonk~1:
Sounds messy....
TronLast Friday at 4:51 PM
Right now we're in research mode. We're building CNv4 so we can run some metrics. If that goes well, we can put together x22rc and see how it performs. It will likely gore everyone's ox. CPUs can play, GPUs work, but aren't dominant. ASICs VERY difficult, and FPGAs will have a tough time.
ZaabLast Friday at 4:51 PM
Yeah i feel like the results would be unreliable
TronLast Friday at 4:51 PM
Is this good, or do we lose everyone's vote?
PlayHardLast Friday at 4:52 PM
Fpga will be dead
Lokar -=Kai=-Last Friday at 4:52 PM
why isn;t a simple XOR or something on the table?
ZaabLast Friday at 4:52 PM
The multiple bip9 that is
Lokar -=Kai=-Last Friday at 4:52 PM
something asic breaking but doesn't greatly complicate ongoing efforts for FPGA being my point.
justinjjaLast Friday at 4:52 PM
How are you going to vote for x22rc?
Because if by hashrate that wouldn't pass.
traysiLast Friday at 4:52 PM
Personally I like the idea of x22rc but I'd want to investigate the botnet threat if CPUs are allowed back in.
TronLast Friday at 4:52 PM
XOR is on the table, and was listed in my Medium post. But, the social risk of chain split remains, for very little gain.
traysiLast Friday at 4:53 PM
@Lokar -=Kai=- A small change means that whoever has 45% can probably quickly adapt.
LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:53 PM
Research sounds good. x22rc could be reduce to x22r for simplicity...
TronLast Friday at 4:53 PM
x22r is a viable option. No CNv4.
LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:53 PM
Don't know how much time we have to play with though...
Lokar -=Kai=-Last Friday at 4:53 PM
if they have FPGAs yes if they have ASIC then not so much, but I guess that gets to the point, what exactly are we trying to remove from the network?
PlayHardLast Friday at 4:54 PM
Guys my name is Arsen and we designed x16r fpga on bcus. Just about to release it to the public. I am buzzdaves partner.
Cryptonight
Will kill us
But agreed
Asic is possible on x16r
And you dont need 256 core
Cores
traysiLast Friday at 4:55 PM
Hi Arsen. Are you saying CN will kill "us" meaning RVN, or meaning FPGA?
JerozLast Friday at 4:55 PM
This is what im afraid of ^ an algo change killing FPGA as I have the feeling there is a big fpga community working on this
PlayHardLast Friday at 4:55 PM
Fpgas ))
whitefire990Last Friday at 4:55 PM
I am also about to release X16R for CVP13 + BCU1525 FPGA's. I'm open to algo changes but I really don't believe in CPU mining because of botnets. Any CNv4 shifts 100% to CPU mining, even if it is only 1 of the 22 functions.
Lokar -=Kai=-Last Friday at 4:55 PM
namely FPGAs that aren;t memory equipped
like fast mem
not ddr
PlayHardLast Friday at 4:55 PM
Hbm non hbm
Cryptonight
whitefire990Last Friday at 4:56 PM
Right now with both Buzzdave/Altered Silicon and myself (Zetheron) about to release X16R for FPGA's, then the 45% miner's share will decrease to 39% or less.
PlayHardLast Friday at 4:56 PM
Will be dead for fpga
LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 4:56 PM
sound so x22r is fpga "friendly" ... more so than asic anyway...
PlayHardLast Friday at 4:56 PM
But a change must be planned
X16r is no way possible to avoid asics
TJayLast Friday at 4:56 PM
@LSJI07 - MBIT I would say less friendly...
whitefire990Last Friday at 4:57 PM
As I mentioned in thenest discussion, asic resistance increases with the square of the number of functions, so X21R is more asic resistant than X16R, but both are pretty resistant
PlayHardLast Friday at 4:58 PM
Yeah more algos make it heavier on ASIC
DirkDiggler (Citadel Architect)Last Friday at 4:58 PM
My interpretation of the whitepaper was that we used x16r as it was brand new (thus ASIC resistant), and that was to ensure a fair launch... We've launched... I don't like the idea of constantly forking to avoid the inevitable ASICs.
x16r was a great "experiment" before we had any exchange listings... that ship has sailed though... not sure about all these x22rs lmnop changes
KAwARLast Friday at 5:00 PM
I believe that it is easier to change the direction of a bicycle than an oil tanker. We feel more like a train. We should lay out new tracks and test on them and find benefits that are acceptable to everyone except train robbers. Then open the new train station with no contentious feelings except a silently disgruntled minority group. ???
Hans_SchmidtLast Friday at 5:01 PM
The most productive action the community can do now re ASICs is to voice support for the devs to make a non-BIP9 change at a chosen block height if/when the need is clear. That removes the pressure to act rashly to avoid voting problems.
LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 5:01 PM
Thats why im proposing to fork at least once to a more asic resistant algo (but FPGA "friendly/possible"), with the proviso ideally that no more PoW algo forks are require to provide future ASICs some opportunity to innovate with silicon and efficiency.
TJayLast Friday at 5:01 PM
folks should take into account, that high end FPGAs like BCU1525 on x16r can't beat even previous gen GPUs (Pascal) in terms of hash cost. so they aren't a threat to miners community
PlayHardLast Friday at 5:02 PM
A proper change
Requires proper research
eyz (Silence)Last Friday at 5:02 PM
Just so I'm clear here, we are trying to boot ASICS, don't want CPUs because of Botnets, and are GPU and FPGA friendly right?
PlayHardLast Friday at 5:02 PM
It is not a quick one day process
eyz (Silence)Last Friday at 5:02 PM
If there is a bip9 vote there needs to be a clear explanation as I feel most in the community don't understand exactly what we are trying to fix
TronLast Friday at 5:03 PM
@Hans_Schmidt I like that route. It has some game theoretics. It gives time for miners to adapt. It is only used if needed. It reduces the likelihood of ASICs dominating the network, or even being built.
[Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 5:03 PM
Hey guys. great convo. We are of course looking to do the best thing for the community and miner. We are going to be signing off here though.
justinjjaLast Friday at 5:03 PM
TJay that comes down to power cost.
If your paying 4c/kw gpus all the way.
But if your a home miner in europe an fpga is your only chance
LSJI07 - MBITLast Friday at 5:03 PM
@Hans_Schmidt How do we decide the block limit and when sufficient evidence is available? I would say we have had much compelling information to date...
[Dev-Happy] BlondfrogsLast Friday at 5:03 PM
Thanks for participating. and keep up the good work :smiley:
Have a good weekend.
CAWWWW
TronLast Friday at 5:03 PM
I haven't seen any compelling evidence of ASICs - yet.
Pho3nix Monk3yLast Friday at 5:03 PM
:v:
JerozLast Friday at 5:04 PM
I suggest to continue discussion in #development and #thenest :smiley:
thanks all!
TronLast Friday at 5:04 PM
Cheers everyone!
KAwARLast Friday at 5:04 PM
Agree with Hans.
DirkDiggler (Citadel Architect)Last Friday at 5:04 PM
thanks Tron
Pho3nix Monk3yLast Friday at 5:04 PM
Ending here. continue in Nest if wanted
DirkDiggler (Citadel Architect)Last Friday at 5:04 PM
I am waiting for compelling evidence myself.
submitted by mrderrik to Ravencoin [link] [comments]

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